New Power Mac G4 Line, Improvements worth the money for audio? Options

[salparadise99]

Are the improvements worth the money for audio?

Specifically:

It seems that there are very good graphics improvements (from what were already exceptional), but budgetwise I don't need better graphics, but rather optimal audio functionality.

Also, a couple of questions...

1) The Xserve technology that I think all of the new G4's come with seems to be a server based advantage. I am somewhat of a novice. ...Was Apple trying to design a superpower machine for creative people (like me who wants to dedicate my machine to recording music) and therefore assumed that when you are recording that your machine is functioning as a server as opposed to a home computer?

2) Is the Mac® OS X version 10.2 “Jaguar” designed for tasks such as audio recording? Have there been some good reviews on this yet?

[damann]

extra power is always useful for audio.
dual processing particularly. under osx, certainly.
they have "optimal audio functionality" built in.
xserve is indeed a "server based advantage", but watch this space for a few months.
cubase and nuendo. o.k, steinberg, already implement the networking/clustering of computers for audio purposes. it's not even platform specific!
apple have always tried, at least, to design "superpower machines for creative people".
jaguar represents apple's most serious commitment to audio/midi recording etc to date, to the point that they have taken over responsibility for this from their third party developers.
i think i answered your queries, other than to say that software support for audio/midi in 10.2 is where the only (temporary) problem actually exists.

[rickenbacker]

I think it's fair to say that Jaguar is ready, but the full range of Mac music software/hardware is not.

[salparadise99]

Rickenbacker,

Thanks. Would you say it's okay to purchase the Jag with a new G4 and just download software updates from Mac as things improve?

Which software/hardware in particular could use improvement? Is it audio-related?

[rickenbacker]

If I had £2,000 to spare, I'd definitely spring for one of the new 1GHz dual processor G4s (or maybe the dual 867 plus a 17" Apple display). But I don't.

If you're prepared to be patient, yeah, why not? Go for Jaguar and over the next few months, all the audio and Midi options will eventually slide over to OS X. Logic is already there, which I think will definitely encourage everyone else. In fact, I was at Apple Expo Paris on Tuesday and saw a lot of OS X music stuff, notably Cubase SX which looks great.

Then finally you need the interface manufacturers to come out with drivers, but most of that work is nearly finished, too. I think within a couple of months there'll be a wide range of products available to choose from and build a terrific recording set-up.

I've got Reason, Live, Melodyne and Logic, with an Edirol UA-5 - all OS X compatible and I don't think that I personally need much more. Well, there's always techno lust for new gear, but that'll always be with us! I'm keeping that under control now my studio set-up is OS X compatible.

[ruggedbeline]

what about the noisey fans in these new machines.
They are very loud.
people could email apple about this problem,
It doesn't cost to much for quiet fans surely.

[salparadise99]

wow really?..that's the first that I have heard that they are loud. Anyone else experience that?

That sure is a bummer for audio recording.

[rickenbacker]

Noisy fans, yep, people have mentioned that a lot. We're not talking loud in terms of Rolls Royce jet engines, but you still wouldn't want to record your vocal standing next to one.

BTW, in the current issue of MacUser (in the UK - macuser.co.uk), they review the dual 867MHz G4 and conclude that it's pretty good, but not significantly faster than a single processor G4. A lot of it probably is Apple simply wanting new machines on the market without any revolutionary performance to offer.

Any decent-spec G4 from the last year or so is still going to be an excellent machine for music.

[salparadise99]

I wonder which one is faster is you were to make a head to head comparison of the single processor, and the new dual processor machine? Has anyone seen any articles yet with such a comparison?

[salparadise99]

Here's a good one...they say that the fan isn't as noisy as the last line but that it's not saying much!!

Check it out:

http://macspeedzone.com/html/hardware/mach...ter_list_9.html

[rickenbacker]

The MacUser review says the dual is slightly faster than the single.

[Synthetik]

To tell you the truth, I can not stand the new G4s. I think they put the cpu back in the front of the case. The last g4s had the cpu in the back and it was good for heat reduction. with the cpu in the front the computer runs hotter. I felt the back of the new G4s and it was hot as hell. The fan is also a lot more noisy.

[cleft]

I can attest to the loud fan noise. It's not "on" constantly, but when it turns on, it's more than noticeable... I had heard that it was loud, and was still suprised when it first spun on. I joked that it was like a small vacuum cleaner... a bit of an exaggeration, of course.

These are quick machines, but like you'll see in a lot of forums, Apple seems to have made a half-step forward to a potentially faster machine. There's a bottleneck in that the system cannot take full advantage of the DDR RAM. I think Apple is fully dedicated to making the ultimate "creative" machine, and that the new G4s are simply a teaser of what's "hopefully" to come.

[lepetitmartien]

Yo boys!

I'm having fun chasing cows in the Swiss alps and you try to mess the forums… ttttt

too bad, I'm back, and the MAC hardware threads go to their proper location right now. (OS9 for the time being, the overauling of the structures of the forums is due some time soon)

(spank spank)

Go for the dual processor man... and get a dual monitor setup as well. ther's nothing like having ALL your windows open in an audio program. Quite nifty.

[lepetitmartien]

You've got 2 eyes, 2 ears, you can have 2 screens and 2 procs… quite sensible

About the fan NOISE has anyone tried an exchange trick for a quieter model, or the radiator shape itself means noise…

hint: I think the guys at Apple are deaf (DO YOU HEAR ME?

(and I'm finding my G3 BW already noisy…)

[damann]

on this subject, a very rich friend of mine who owns six protools rigs, two logic rigs, AND a couple of powerbooks with 828's just bought a new dual 1.25 ghz machine. the fan was way noisier than older machines!
within 24 hours he sent the machine back and swapped it for a dual 1 ghz from the previous range...
hey, GREAT to have you back lpm, back to chasing tech problems for you now i'm afraid.

[shahasad]

Just as an FYI, the CPU's are located in the back of the machine and do not have fans. Just a heat sink. The tower itself adds the extra fan...

[Stuartpa]

?? Are people returning the New Mac Dual 1.2Ghz's just because ofthe increased fan noise.
We keep the actual CPU's out of the Studio Monitoring and recording area's completely in a separate equipment room where all the noisy stuff goes Drives Etc, The room also has it's own cooling system and we were wondering if there was more to the fact that people were returning these systems than just he Fan Noise and decreased cooling efficiency.

We are going to the 1.25's as these will apparently be the last systems from Apple that will be able to Boot from OS 9 in the newest machines to come you can still use OS 9 but you will not be able boot from OS 9 it which as I am sure you all know could be a real hassle.`

i've been wondering where you can still buy a quicksilver dual-proc g4... Apple certainly isnt selling them anymore (i was on the phone last night trying to get them to sell me one but they said they don't have any in supply whatsoever). for those who returned/know someone who returned one of the ddr sdram g4s for an older one: where did you get the older one from?!


m.

[damann]

hi stuartpa,
we do exactly the same as you guys with the pt rigs, i'll ask my friend if there were any other issues. from what i understand, the 1.25 dual was purchased for running logic from his london home studio which is the least sophisticated of his studios(no machine room), in fact, hardly used other than for the small percentage of the 60 days a year that he spends in england, that he's actually at home!
having said this, i don't think it's a wise idea to invest in os9 right now, why not squeeze the last bit of juice from your current systems until digi etc get onto the x wagon?
i and my friend work extensively in olympic studios here in london, we also work a lot in n.y and l.a, we don't know anybody that's investing in new macs for the purpose of staying with 9. logic works fine under x and pt works fine on all of the g4 systems we use. i'll get back to you with more info on this decision.

[lepetitmartien]

never loose the point that the acctual machines are transitionnal ones. For the next step is… we don't know.

I'm sure Apple ha incorporated into it's plan that most of the people who want to buy new machines will think twice before investing as the issues on the G4 range are quite public. And they can say this trismester we sold less machines (as all the others) because of al quaida/bush/saddam/afghanisthan/oil/rabbits. It'll be on the financial side normal. They can wait to have something really new. If they had it, it'll be out already, but the politics and economics are disverting financial critics elsewhere. They use it also.

On the french side of macmusic heral uses still a PT on a really old thing 7600 if I remember well. He's a professionnal and it's enough for now (there are other digidesign related issues . The trouble has always been to make the balance between what can I do with the actual stuff, what if I wait the new ones? Is it worth? (as far as we can say, and now, we don't know a thing) and finally the actual machines will be sufficient for how long?

Unfortunately there are to many unknowns things in the equation. I won't try a prediction.

The last resort is to think? How much work can I do until I'll change again that I'll can't make with the machine I have now. And the answer is yours. partly influenced by how far are due the new killer macs?

pretty difficult question now.

on my own (I see you drinking my words are the ultimate oracle i'd say: you don't have a mac, buy one and work. You have one, work with it the actual situation can't stay that way more than 3 months. Think about January and macworld SF. Even if they make the anouncements outside the big exhibits (SF, boston-NY, tokyo, Paris) most of the big turn at Apple are taken around the SF expo, and as soon as they'll know when something new will come, they'll tell us.

That said, I still don't have the money to moove from a G3 BW 400…

[Stuartpa]

HI Daman thanks for checking this out, it is appreciated.

We really need to get a couple of New Macs and I am sure that when the next real upgrades get released we will probably get some of them as well. talk about the Bleedin Edge but I am beginning to think that Apple is becoming more of an OS developer than a real hardware developer. I do love them Macs though, the PC's don't get used for much round here.

We will be using them for a Logic PTHD system and I know that ususally everything ends up working out, but if there is anything that helps us keep the Production going with a minimum break while we switch the systems it would be good to know.

If the systems really are transitional that ususally ends up being good as they usually get the bugs worked out just before they wreck everything with new systems, but it all works out in then so far for me anyway

We are invvestigating OSX of course but there is so much that need s to happen with the Software Plugins especially before it is really a viable OS.

We got a couple of systems running just OSX more for testing than anything else and it is pretty good but it is still not as fast as OS 9.

I guess when the Software gets t oaccess the hardware through another layer of software that can slow things down. But OSX is a pretty nice Looking OS and being able to get into some of the Unix stuff could get interesting

[damann]

hi stuartpa,
seems like we're in very similar situations here!
i've talked to a couple of mates who also own machines from the latest range, and can't help feeling (especially on the basis that you'll be housing them in the machine room) that you should go ahead with the purchase, my other friends don't seem to have much problem with the noise, and that seems to be the only issue other than dissapointment with the implementation of ddram and the new system buss not quite being what it could be. the best mac to buy IS the newest, as with any computer(generally).
os9 compatibility is obviously a major issue for the forseeable future, and therefore remains a serious issue, unfortunately!
you hit the nail on the head when you said that apple are more an os developer than a real hardware developer these days. it's nice to hear from someone else who notices how sluggish osx is compared to os9, x is the beginning of something great whereas os9 IS something great!
do, of course, check with digi though, we all know how slow they are to check out and endorse the new machines...

[idolini]

Hello Gentlemen,
This would be my first post on this forum, and I just wanted to clarify some things about the G4 DP 1.25 MDD (mirrored door-drive). As it stands at this moment there are MAJOR problems having to due with noise stemming from faulty engineering of power supply cooling fans, and also as far as audio goes there are crackling, popping, and humming sounds depending on it's mood that day. Despite our having evidence of Apple's prior knowledge of these issues, they continue to pretend that the machines are perfectly fine and the noise levels are normal due to the power generated. Thus, a considerable international coalition of professional musicians, artists, and basically devout Mac owners who are not receiving an acceptable response from Applecare have united and formed a website with the intention of spreading the word to the public about the fallacies behind these machines.

Right now, my $4,400 investment is virtually useless to me as a musician because I cannot record audio with this constant humming and high-pitched whining from the power supply fans, and i unfortunately don't have the means like you fellows do of keeping the box in a separate room. It's so loud, one literally cannot hear him/herself think! Logic Audio Platinum is still not fully OS X functional...and as far as I'm concerned...OS 9.2.x is at least ten times the speed of OS X across the board. I have no idea what that's about.

In any event, if anyone would like more first hand information on what's going on with all of this, and just how serious this aims to be for a company treading on such a small market share to begin with...feel free to pop on by. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G4noise/ Mean time, I'll be bending your ears for some much needed advice and help so bear with an old guy!

Thanks for hangin' with this friggin' tome!

idolini

[replicant]

To those of you who experiencing noise problems with the new G4 MDD's. Please sign the petition at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/applemdd/petition.html

Review the petition, and if you agree to the
statement, please sign. I ask that you all spread this
url/address to MDD users worldwide and participate in
sending a common message to Apple.