Logic Pro Vrs. Digital Performer, features? scoring capabilties? Options

[chagos]

greetings all,

I am getting ready to do a bit of a drastic change in the studio. I'm bswitching from a Pro Tools based studio to more of a MIDI enviromnet.

I'm looking into either Logic Pro or Digital Performer to be the main workhorse, and I'll keep a Pro Tools LE rig on the side for everything else.

I mainly do sound design and film scoring/music.
I am somewhat new to Logic since the last version I used was 5.5.1 and I have never used DP.

I am semi-pro, working on many indie films, games and animations.

I have been using Pro Tools, Live, and Reason together for the last few years, but the time has come to get a more sturdy midi program. Almost all of my work is done exclusively through MIDI, mostly by softsynths or plug ins(hence the reason I am moving over pro tools)

I'm mainly just wondering what everyones opinions are on the two sequencers I mentioned. Should I go for Logic or DP?

I've read about both and they both seem to get pretty good reviews, and they both would do the job I need them for. So, i guess I would just like some user feedback.

do both have timecode?
does DP support most plug ins( example: native instruments)?
do both bounce to quicktime?
do they both support 5.1 surround routing and mixing?
rewire?

Any information on either of these would be great, as I am really cautious about a change like this.

Thanks so much for the help. Its appreciated.

(oh, i'll be using os x.3.9, G5, etc.)

[tencentcat]

I have had all three, and recently dumped Pro Tools in favor of Logic Pro 7. I don't regret it at all.

They will all do what you need, so the best thing you could do is find someone who has Logic and/or DP and see how they feel. If you're used to PT, then DP won't feel that different (they have many similarities. Unfortunately MOTU is lame enough not to have any kind of demo or even detailed info on their site.

If you mainly want MIDI, go with Logic. It's by far the smoothest workflow out of all of them IMO.

[Jsegura]

Logic 7.1 with its incredible lot of plugs, the optimization for OSX and G5, and the enormous development of software in both last years, one has become in the most powerful tool for recording of audio midi. It's the reference to follow. He is the king.

[chagos]

i've also heard really bad things about logic/apple support, and the extremely steep learning curve of logic.

the plug ins are a definite bonus though.

[JOHjoh]

I ve used both. I have now Logic pro 7.1 and for sequensing it's better than DP (i think). You get also so many nice plugins and instruments at same price, those only worth more than only program, with DP you'll have to buy instruments if you like to use those (there are some free and very nice forex. GreenOak Crystal, Automat 0.03 and some smart electronic plugins)
One thing I hated was DP's midi auto phase function what glued midi note's arbitrary...I had 3.1... what I miss, was that in DP you can have easily have different arrangements in one song and change those in fly. That was really cool.

For audio, my opinion is that DP is much more better... one thing I really miss is that in DP you can move you audio files sample accurate to right place. For example if you use extrenal prosessing and get back your prosessed audio files back to DP you can easily move files to start and get your audio wave to go in right phase. Logic is phase error prosessor for me.....Logic dont allow to move you audio files how you want. There is somekind on f***ing grid that I haven't found how to get it off, or I think you cant ??? One thing why I'm going to update my DP to tiger compatible. (I waited that update to logic 7.1, but it did not come)

[azusa]

If you looking for film scoring, nothing beats DP.

1.do both have timecode?
2.does DP support most plug ins( example: native instruments)?
3.do both bounce to quicktime?
4.do they both support 5.1 surround routing and mixing?
5.rewire?

1. If you mean are they support time code? -yes
2. yes - for VST you need a VST wrapper such one by audio ease ($46) or VST to AU.
3. yes
4. yes , DP can do more than 5.1.
5. yes

[tencentcat]

Oh yeah - DP is a major CPU hog compared to Logic. At least on my machine (Dual 1.25 G4, 1.25 gb ram). If I open the same file through OMF there is a major difference in power.

[JOHjoh]

I forget one thing... DP doesn't need dongle. I have powerbook and G5 2x2.5 ghz. I use powerbook and Logic for sketching... doing beats at home, for recordings in field... Dongle is for me disadvantage. I have apogee Mini-Me, what takes One USB port and logic dongle another. If I want to use mouse, i have to take USB hub with. I'm also worried about, because it's quite thiny, where did I put it, do I have it with me, if I want to do some sketch at home or go to record something with powerbook. Did i remember to took it with when i go back to studio. If I lost it, I cant do anything...does anyone actually know what happends, if you lost it, do I'll have to buy whole new logic? Logic dongle make me nervous...2 years ago I had a dongle jungle, Adobe After effects, Reaktor, waves (2), (these dont have no more), Logic is only.
...but thats maeby only my problem, i'm quite absent...

[Jsegura]

i've also heard really bad things about logic/apple support

I have logic from version 3, and never had problems of support. As it's a deep program, its curve of learning also. So that it works of basic form, it's not necessary much. Soon everything comes with the practice. I do not agree that DP is superior to Logic in audio. In audio Logic he is also the best one.

[formatj]

........ and the extremely steep learning curve of logic.

The learning curve of Logic is no steeper than any other program. I've used just about every sequencer and I don't know why people keep saying that Logic has a steep learning curve.

You have to read the manual with every program to learn all the features.

[Jsegura]

Logic is very great and complex, but its basic operation is easy. For me it's to most ¨logical¨. Once you begin, everything comes. Plug that it has are impressive. Its price, also.

[ourmanflinty]

I'm going to go for Logic too. Although DP has always been an Apple only program, with Logic being part of Apple I think the intergration into your mac environment will be superior to DP as time goes by..The CPU hog issue too, this started if i remember correctly when OSX came around so it sounds like it needs a complete re-write..? This will become less of an issue as time goes by and faster systems are availiable I guess but it's pretty slow sometimes..I've never been a serious user of DP, only ever enough to install and do minor support stuff so a little biased!

I understand DP has always been a musicians favourite in the US of A, there was a lot of midi intergration back in the day with patch library management etc and it was fairly well performance orientated if you wanted to take it on stage with you...Logic has always been more of a 'european' product?

[hahaworld]

I've never used DP, so I'm going to put my vote in for Logic. I've been using it for about 4 years now, and it gets easier the more you use it (just like everything else). There is a learning curve, but why is that a problem? Everything worthwhile in life has a learning curve or costs some effort, so I think we all need to quit whining about the learning curve. Once I learned how to do audio in Logic, I dumped ProTools like a bad girlfriend. I don't intend to look back, either. I don't think the ProTools folks are too interested in keeping the Mac users happy. So be it. Logic spanks ProTools like a redheaded stepchild.

HOWEVER, I will concur that Apple's Logic support leaves a lot to be desired. I had some serious technical issues with Logic earlier this year, and no one on the phone support line was able to help me. I actually had one tech guy tell me, "Well...I guess you'll just have to figure it out yourself." Hmm...Apple, if you're reading this, how about putting some more effort into tech support training? A tech guy should never say, "Figure it out yourself." That's just bad bid-ness.

Anyway, if you want to skip some of the learning curve in Logic, find a friend who uses it and get them to show you how to do stuff. It's a lot more intuitive and you'll learn more in a 2-hour session from hands on tutoring than you'll ever learn reading the manual (which is pretty confusing). Also, I've learned more from third-party authors about Logic than I ever have from the supplied manuals. Sometimes I think the guys who write manuals (especially manual indexes) get off on obfuscation. If you're like me, in the past month I've gone to the index of the manual 20 times or more to find some information only to discover that the index has absolutely no alphabetical reference for the issue I'm curious about. Then you go digging and waste an hour or more trying to find out what you need to know because the contents pages and the index basically suck. Come to think of it, Mac's help system has always sucked. I rarely find anything I'm looking for that's worth anything in Mac Help or on the Apple support website. It's a jumbled mess, in my opinion.

Okay. I've whined enough (after I told everyone to quit whining!). Have a great day, and after all is said and done, good and bad, Logic rocks my world.

hahaworld

[editbrain]

There is somekind on f***ing grid that I haven't found how to get it
off, or I think you cant ???

if you hold the control key while dragging you can bypass the grid.

[chagos]

So everyone is pointing towards logic? or almost everyone?

any DP users out there want to hit back?

I had a couple problems when I used logic 5.5.1, and it was basically the manual. It was very badly written, and I could not find the exact answers I was looking for. luckily there were many users with the same problems over on the logic forums.

so, we all know logic's midi capabilties are monstrous, which is what I'm looking for. What about its audio? and audio recording and editing?

Ce message a été modifié par chagos - jeu. 28 juil. 2005, 20:29.

[Jsegura]

You must updates to version 7. The manuals are excellent. The capacity for audio is almost limitless.

[DANO10]

I don't know about hitting back but...

I'm a DP user that is very happy and have been for several years. I'm a conventionally trained composer (college and private study) I find DP very easy to use and very musical. There is a new version. DP 4.6 with the following new features:

"Pitch Automation. Pattern Gate Plug-in. V-Racks. AAF file interchange. Film/Video Scoring Enhancements. Multiple outputs for AU plug-ins & ReWire. Audio Click. Bounce to QuickTime Movie. Productivity Enhancements."

I admit that I have never seen a Logic screen. I know that it is a fine program. However, the vast majority of posts on this forum are about how to run Logic and not DP.

DANO10

[Jsegura]

I have worked with DP also. I was two years with both. Finally I was decided by Logic. When it left version 5. The jump that it gave was enormous. I liked much DP. But now I believe that the decision that I took was the best one. Came Apple and everything changed for better.

[gdoubleyou]

I say get them both, get the DP competitive upgrade $395
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DigPerfComp/

And Logic Express, for the best of both worlds.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LogicExp/

I own both much fun.

[chagos]

bloody hell,
now i am so confused i don't know what to get!

as i said, they both look really good.
Logic has all the free plugs in, but DP is about $400 cheaper.

Logic has a steep learning curve(sorry guys. that is the consensus on every logic forum i go to), but Digital Performer is a CPU hog.
pros and cons . . . .

both have amazing features, and both do 5.1.

what is a guy suppose to do??????
damn you money! the bane of every musician!!!

does anyone know where to find Logic pro cheap? I found many deals on DP, still looking around for Logic.

thanks for the unbiased replies everyone. Its appreciated. At this point both seem fantastic, so I am looking for that one small thing that will push one above the other. Hopefully I'll find it.

[Jsegura]

Logic has all the free plugs in, but DP is about $400 cheaper.

Plugs of Logic if they were sold separated they could cost around 3500$
I think that the cost of DP is smaller but is not cheaper.

[azusa]

what is a guy suppose to do??????
damn you money! the bane of every musician!!!

If you think Logic consider this:
Upgrading from Logic 7 to 7.1 , it'll cost you $19.95
DP 4.5 to 4.6 is free.

Apple has been in a money grabbing mode lately.

[chagos]

$20!
that is mildly amusing. Must be one hell of an upgrade.

[Jsegura]

If you think Logic consider this:
Upgrading from Logic 7 to 7.1 , it'll cost you $19.95 
DP 4.5 to 4.6 is free.

The upgrades that Logic make, are great. Include new plugs and new instruments. No other program includes the improvements that Logic offers in his plugs. Because nobody approaches the package of plugs that Logic has. The updates of DP with those of Logic cannot be compared. In addition update 7,1 comes in DVD and is necessary to buy it in distributors authorized. Therefore 20$ are just.

Ce message a été modifié par Jsegura - ven. 29 juil. 2005, 23:01.

[chagos]

just curious,
how many upgrades do you have to buy per year for Logic?

[Jsegura]

Whatever more, better.

[ourmanflinty]

If you can find someone who works at an apple store then ask them to buy it for you..they get 50% discount on software..50%!! So it's worth spending £100 on gifts to win them over you still get a bargain

[jcmmusic]

Well, if you are a student (or have a student friend) you can get Logic 7 for $ 500 from apple. that's how I've got mine, and they never even asked for my student ID!. I used DP back in 1998-2001 and after a brief period with cubase (yikes) I've switched to Logic. Once you learn it, it's an amazing program. As a matter of fact, I made quite a few bucks teaching private Logic lessons . DP being the best program for film scoring is nowadays a myth (I'm a scorer myself). Logic's midi extended parameters match or beat DP's conductor track easily. For me, DP feels a bit old.
Go Logic.

j.-

[chagos]

well i will be a student once more in a few months, so maybe I'll hold off on Logic until then. In the meantime maybe check out DP. I mean if I can get Logic for $500, then i would have enough to get DP as well.

I guess I need to go to the music store and check out both of them for a few afternoons and see what happens.

thanks all. Your advice/woes/happiness is much appreciated.

viva la france!

oh, and the u.s.a too, and everywhere else, especially New Zealand.

[Lotus17]

I am going to be a student at Ball State University next year and I talked to the director of the Music Technology program. They used Digital Performer for the last year or so and they really liked it a lot, but they are looking into swiching to Logic. Dr. Kothman was telling me about how Logic came with SO MANY GREAT PLUG-INs that it was probably going to be the keeper. With Digital Performer they had to buy and use a few other plug-ins to get what they can get with Logic. I plan on getting Logic, soon. Next paycheck, and it will be my entire paycheck... but I hope it's worth it.

[chibass55]

I'll put in a vote for DP. I've used it for years and love it. I have a friend who is a massive Mac head who does tons of research about all the apps and the way he explained it was Pro Tools first, then DP, then a space, then Logic,Cubase etc. Just my 2 centavos so take it as you will. Plus, and I know this is way important, DP looks really cool.

;-)