The Music Theory Behind Trance?, anyone know anything about it Options

[slowintrepid]

Ok recently I've been trying to produce my own tracks (mostly trance)
I've been a guitar player since I was 9 years old so I know theory in genral. but the reason I got into trance was because the genre eludes me and seem quite complex (when in reality it's pretty simple I hear??)

anyways can someone gimme some info on what goes into a trance song (theory wise that is)

thanks alot

[boze]

::rOTfL::

(that was awesome, thanks for starting my day with a smile:)

[slowintrepid]

ummm your welcome...........but I was being serious.

unfortunantly don't find the humor in my original post

[boze]

oh-
sorry.

no offense.

i'm not big into trance myself. but since you have a regular music background you should be plenty capable.

house music is straight-forward enough. and spacey pads are a dime a dozen in any softsynth or sampler you come across. if i remember correctly, gating is also popular so you can gate pads rhythmically to accent your beats and basslines.

the form is usually additive 16-bar like other kinds of house music, so it's a slow predictable grower and you can just build energy and break down once or twice in the middle.

for added flavor try experimenting with something like reaktor- which can lead you to textural material you wouldn't create or discover otherwise.

good luck.

Ce message a été modifié par boze - lun. 5 janv. 2004, 18:29.

[slowintrepid]

thanks alot

sorry to sound like an ass it's just that I don't know much about electronic music. (been playing in bands since 8th grade though so that's where I get my music background from)

I'm more having problems with the melodic part of the genre though. like scales and harmony and stuff

[boze]

no i think it's me that's the ass in this thread.

as i recall trance relies pretty heavily on arpeggiators. do you know what that is? if you hold down just one note you get a repeating series of notes that steps up and/or down through the notes of a chord or just jumps octaves every note. it sounds fancy when you hear it but then when you realize you just do it buy using one note and an arp it sorta takes the magic out.

anyway, that's just another thing to fiddle with if you didn't already know about it. kinda old school though and played out imo. but then that's how i feel about trance as well

[slowintrepid]

yeah I know what an argeggiator is. that's not really for me for two reasons.
1. I like to right my own stuff and I feel like I'm cheating if I use an arpeggiator.
2. most arpeggiators I've heard are usually very VERY simple. like 1,2,3,4,5,5,4,3,2,1 kinda like that.

the only good arpeggiator I've heard is the one inside the KORG Karma that was a nice gadget

[boze]

yeah just wanted to make sure you weren't in the dark about that because it seemed like the kind of thing that could make the 'melodies' of trance seem less accessible than they really are.

[Synthetic]

there are many different branches of trance that you could explore too... i find it kinda interesting that someone with a real musical background wants to create trance though... most people with a decent understanding of music find trance boring and too repetitive and predictable for most part.

I understand your not wanting to use an arp because you feel its cheating but... there are some arp patterns that I feel would almost be impossible to play live unless at very slow tempo due to there complexity. Most midi arp files are not near as complex as some the patterns some of the new synths pack... I have heard Death In Vegas use an arp before but it was used on and off with simple pattern to stutter the synth lead as the keyboard player played. Point being... don't rule them out totally because they do have usefullness and depending on the arp generator... sometimes you can create some really interesting patterns using different key patterns with the arp that will sound totally original even if someone has same arp pattern.

With my electronic music... I have always tried to steer clear of the trance genre just because most of it i have heard just doesn't appeal to me. I know a lot of club goers dig this music but ask any of them what their favorite artist is and most can't tell you... or if they do... they just tell you the DJ that spins the music.

To each his I guess. Anyway... you can look at www.dancetech.com for more info on this and similar genres and www.computermusic.co.uk has some nice little production lessons and tips as well.

[slowintrepid]

yeah I would consider trance my "guilty pleasure" like I said though for the longest time I used to hate everything related to eletronic music (including trance) so that means that I'm pretty new to everything electronic music. So I figured that I'd start with somthing easy and something that I like. (yes I know trance is very repetative but I think all music has it's place personally)


anyways thanks for the links. I've been a member to Computermusic.co.uk for quite a while (I'd get a subscription to the mag but it's like $150 dollars to ship it here lol)

the other one I'll check out haven't been there yet so thanks alot

[Dstudnicky]

The best way to learn would just be to listen to trance music.

I don't know if you know much about classical style, but trance is an outgrowth of minimalism. If you want to check out some music like that without the electronics, listen to Steve Reich's "Music for 18 Musicians."

But yeah, it's minimalism. If that's the sound you want to create, it is repetitious, but usually a chill-out repetitious that should be true to it's name. Unless it really is different from the classical variety. I'm not that confident on definitions for what trance, or most other electronic genres, really are.

[alixir]

It's an old trance trick, I'm sure most of the commercial trance producers don't have a musical inkling into what they're doing. I used to know that most went onto the internet, downloaded classical midi files and then re-arranged them to get professional sounding chords.

Secondly you need to go and use loads of presets off of most of the keyboards that are around today. Honestly, isn't it about time that people started making their own lead sounds for a change, it all sounds like the same keyboard to me! Also get yourself some nice 808/909 drum sounds and learn gating for pads to get those bits lead sounds and also an arpeggiator so you don't have to spend more than five minutes on a pattern.

Thirdly, forget trance and go and listen to Infected Mushroom and several other well thought out psytrance acts that actually put more than a days work into their tracks, experimenting with non conformist trance sounds and willie orbit style effects patching whilst still having room and time to add a little atmosphere.

That's the best way my friend! Although, trance used to be good around 93, at least all the tracks didn't sound like an anthem......

[boze]

amen!!

tell the truth, ,brother!!!

[slowintrepid]

oh yeah! well..........well............... well I have a cool avatar!!

no but seriously you are right, I know that trance takes little or no talent to produce. But like I said I'm fairly new to electronic music so I figured I'd goof around with something that's easy and that I know.

I'm not new to music in general though. and I do more like audio than Midi stuff anyways.

so I though goofing around with some trance would be cool.

[boze]

it's true: your avatar is the coolest thing ever

[jamester]

Trance, or any other style of music, is only as good as the people that make it.

It's dangerous to have a mindset that certain styles are "easy", or don't require any talent!

Making quality artwork (music or otherwise), requires talent and dedication. It matters not whether it's "real" music on instruments or electronic based.

For the record, I don't really like trance music.
I do like that avatar, though!

JAMES

[Synthetic]

what I have noticed is... if you try to get TOO CREATIVE with certain styles of electronic music... many listeners will note that is not true to the genre or should be in another sub-genre etc... its hard to be creative and to make something that is marketable too

and I do agree that avator is very ocol... simple animation but effective and interesting... slowintrepid... did you create that?

[Jaysee]

A few years ago I had a go at recording something along those lines, I played the result to a DJ I knew and he told me it was *TOO* interesting! So best keep it fairly simple, quantised, very repetitive, I suppose one has to bear in mind that the people listening to it in clubs often'arent quite themselves', so probably dont want some clever musician's harmonically adventurous magnum opus in 11/8 to distract them too much from their dancing:-) 'Course as a geriatric old fogy of 47 what the hell do I know? Keep true to your own direction musically, record music 'you' like rather than trying to pander to the tastes of dancers. (with apologies to any dancers out there, I am from a bygone age after all)

[carolcox]

Having read through the entire topic regarding the music theory behind trance, I thought I would add my bit for what it is worth!!!
I am very heavy into dance, trance, hardcore and anything to do with electronic music. I have been clubbing in Ibiza a few times and at the ripe old age of 49, so there is hope for you yet! I use Reason, Logic with Edirol midi and have come up with some interesting sounds and yes it is quite repepitive but it is the rawness of the beat. Trance usually starts off pretty mild and builds as the tune expands resulting in a life force of sound and beat. Rank One are a good one to listen to as it is a mix of dance and trance. Have you heard of Airwave which has a multitude of mixes from trance through to hardcore which gives you a perfect example of how trance works. To get the best sound, you really need a Moog keyboard which gives classic sounds for dance, trance. Hope this helps!
Carola

[dmrkh]

One of the most fascinating things about trance is its kinship to acidjazz. Its freeform nature builds/unfolds over more than the 4' it takes Britney to fellate,your ears.

[justiceandstreng...]

Hi there Mr Greatavatar - I haven't even got one. Oh well, I think I can help you though.

Don't worry if people are disparaging about the style (or one) of the styles of music you want to make. There have been some truly great trance tracks (as said earlier around 93 when it was techno that sounded trancey and before it became the formulaic style bandwagon to jump on).

Try and buy Beatnik's Goa and Psychedelic Trance CDrom - should be available from time & space. It has very genuine sounding examples (construction kits) which are then broken down into their constituents. Midi files are also given.

It is quite easy to work out the arrangement - in terms of the flow of parts coming in or breaking down - in your favourite trance tracks. All stuff to be played with as I am sure you know.

Of course I too think that it is important to make music your own and to inject your own character. But this will help you to see the basis of the style - psychedelic and goa type of trance that is. As the others say gating chords and arpeggios are are mainstay of the more anthemic style.

I have made trance tracks in the past (and may do again). I did not pinch chords off the internet - although that sounds like an interesting idea anyway, with some strange noises.

I do agree that much dance music gets very stylistically narrow - house, techno, drum and bass have also been guilty of this. The dj's are often to blame for getting stuck in a rut.

Techno (trance, click.....whatever) music made with technology should and will always be innovating. Learn the rules and then break them ,,,, Go for it dude man.

Ce message a été modifié par justiceandstrength - mer. 28 janv. 2004, 05:40.

[surrealka]

Ok, I've got to chime in here. I'm a classically-trained pianist and composer. I write in a number of styles and genres, some electronic some acoustic. And I love trance music. More specifically, I love psychedelic/goa trance music. Over the past year, I've been working on learning to write good psy trance, and I think it is a very complex, and at times elusive form of music to compose.
Here's my tips on composing trance.

1. Listen to some good trance music. I highly reccomend groups like Infected Mushroom, Hallucinogen, Shpongle, GMS, Hux-Flux, Astral Projection. Listen to it with a critical ear, and try to analyze what they're doing. And listen to different styles; even within psy-trance, there is a wide variety of stlyes.

2. Arpegiators are your friend. Look, I hear what you're saying about it seeming like cheating, but really what it does is give you more tools that you can push even further. Yes, a standard up-down arpeg pattern can be boring, but there are many programs and hardware synths out there that enable you to do very elaborite arpeg patterns. My main synth for writing trance is an Access Virus, which has quite a few patterns that it comes with, all of which are highly variable. Many sequencers, such as Digital Performer, allow you to create your own arpeg patterns from midi tracks.

3. Tweak, record, analyze and cut up. Whatever instruments you're using, spend some time, just playing, fooling around, making interesting sounds. Record everything (MIDI and audio). Then go back and listen to it and find bits you like. You can chop them up for use as loops, or recreate what you did and develop it. The main drawback with trance music is that it can be kind of rigid and monotonous. By playing and recording live improvisation to find starting points for songs, you can create much more flowing mixes.

4. Analyze a trance song you like. Sit down with a piece you really like, and try to chart out what's happening on paper. Trance almost invariably develops in 16 measure phrases, with new elements often coming up every 4 measures. These elements can be subtle. Try to break down what changes in each subdivision. To take this concept even further, you can actually try to recreate a mix using your own equipment (though this is much more involved).

5. General principles: steady, repettitive 4/4 kick with fill every 16 measures. Bass line deep, complementing kick, often filling in betweeen beats as well. Hi hat on odd beats, best with short decay time (it's very easy to overdo the hi hat). Melodies that build in complexity, layering multiple rhythmic patterns. I've read research that says that it is the combination of four or more simulatneous rhythms that induces a trance state in the brain. Tweak filters and LFO's. Ultimately, it's all about good sounds, and there's no absolute standard for that. Also, make sure that your various parts occupy their own niches in the frequency spectrum. This is an important principle of music in general. You can use eq to do this, as well as multiband compression. Most trance music goes through some degree of multiband compression in the mastering.

I hope this helps.
Jim
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