Setting Up A Studio, Questions, please help Options

[DannyMac]

Hello to everybody on the forum at first. I'm very glad that I found this site.

I'm currently working as a Dj and want to set up a private recording studio for myself to produce mainly electronical music (UK Garage/ 2 Step, House, Downbeat...a little bit of Bhangra).

I haven't had any experiences with a mac but definalely want to get one for producing because I've heard from many sides that mac's the only choice for proper media- quality.

So what do I exactely need for a good private studio?

- Mac (which one?) Is the 1,8 GH enough?
- Logic? Or is Garageband enough?
- Do I need something else? Like Keyboard, Mixer, Interfaces...

I would be very thankful if someone could help me because I've currently no idea because there are so many opportunities if you're getting started.

Cheers
Dan

[lepetitmartien]

- the mac: well it's mainly a budget question, but a mono or dual G5 is the best, with RAM, 512 Mo is a minimum, 1GB will make you happy, more can help if a lot of synth/sampler are used. "Old G5" are already selling second hand for "cheap".
- Garageband is a great step in, but if you're musician, you'll outgrow it. It's fast at putting idea together for a decent result. Logic is a professional software, daunting for some, and needs learning. There's an entry level version to step in
Now It depends a lot on you musician ship and the amount of control you want.
- A little keyboard controller at least would help, interfaces, mixers etc it all depends on what you plan to to, like recording someone playing or singing, having some external gear etc.

[DannyMac]

Thanks for the reply. I know it's very hard to find the right equipment in the beginning. Recording singing / s.o. playing a keyboard would be welcome.

So, would a G5 1,8 GH with 1024ram and Logic (Express?) on it enough at first?
And do you think it would be the best to get everything from one hand for example

-M-Audio Firewire 410
-M-Audio MK-449c USB-MIDI-Keyboard

which is directly distributed by Apple?

Which soundcard would you rate?

Ce message a été modifié par DannyMac - dim. 8 mai 2005, 15:20.

[lepetitmartien]

The G5 will do fine (I've got he first generation mono 1,8). Plenty of power. Check second hand, there are some deals right now (collect and verify the G5 in person, no money till you've seen the G5 and tried it).

If you have the money, I'd stay away from M-Audio/Edirol stuff if I were you, we have regularly people coming in for setting up problems.

Now, if you're tight… prefer M-Audio. Check about the 410 here for eventual problems.

Evolution (even if property of M-audio) seems to work fine (controller keyboards)
RME makes great audio interfaces
MOTU MIDI just works (even if after-sales/upgrade policies on software s…s)

The trouble with audio interface is you need to touch the semi-pro/pro market to meet some next to/no fuss peripherals

Be aware that the fact a product is sold on the Applestore doesn't mean it'll work perfectly, it's a trade deal. And sometimes it's less expensive elsewhere…

One thing you don't have to bother too much are preamps, you'll have one on most interfaces, and they are at least decent now. If you need something better, you'll use a separated preamp to match the mic.

For mics: it's better to have a few, but you can start with one, it you treat mics well they will endure. SM57 are general workhorse, and there's plenty of cool mics from Rode, Studio Project (C1) and SE Electronics (SE2200) to start with. Start with one or 2 all rounder. Buy a stand and a pop shield! (especially for condenser mics)

You must be able to monitor too… think about it (avoid M-audio and similar)

There are some threads here in the getting started and other other forums which could help you too.

(btw, nice avatar

[DannyMac]

Thanks lepetitmartien!

Your answers helped a lot.

So, in general, I'll need the following equipment to set up my little studio:

- Apple G5 (maybe 1,8 GH, 1024 ram)
- an Audiointerface
- a Midi- Keyboard
- Logic (Express? Where's the difference?)
- a mic and monitors


Do I need anything more to start up mate?

(btw: Thanks for avatar- props, just my luck I found it )

Ce message a été modifié par DannyMac - lun. 9 mai 2005, 07:53.

[clouvel]

Hi Danny,

I think Garageband will be too basic for your work. Before purchasing Logic Pro (good application but a bit expensive), you can try the demo-trial version of Logic Express :

http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/trial/

(btw too : pretty cool avatar... )

[DannyMac]

Hi Danny,

I think Garageband will be too basic for your work. Before purchasing Logic Pro (good application but a bit expensive), you can try the demo-trial version of Logic Express :

http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/trial/

(btw too : pretty cool avatar... )

Yeah, this is exactly what I thought, too. I've had a few expriences with Cubase but think that Logic woulg be the better solution for a Mac.

Is Garageband a simple samplebased programm?

[DannyMac]

AND: If you're saying that a G5 1,8 GH would be enough, why don't use the Mac Mini in order to reduce costs?

Would a Mini 1,42 Gh be still enough?

[StevieBoy]

Since you get GarageBand 2 free with your new Mac (it's part of iLife 05) why don't you see how you go with that? When you reach its limits, then move up to Logic. The basis of both is the same: apparently the 'engine' - correct me if that's the wrong term - of GB2 and Logic 7 is the same.

Flatten the learning curve as much as possible.

I have an M-Audio FW410 which is great: stable and sounds good. I've only had one problem, and that was driver-related. If you follow the best practice of always downloading the latest driver from the company website, I doubt you'll have problems.

[B3 Basher]

Garage Band 2 will work OK for the type of Dance music you intend to create. It will provide a grounding for your aspirations and will not complicate things too much at the 'newbie' stage. You can graduate to bigger and better things later. It's free with the Mac so it can't hurt eh? If you do graduate to Logic Pro/Express, GB2 is equally processor intensive, so you'll be auditioning your set up for any processor/RAM limitations as Stevie Boy says.

Lepetitmartian talks a lot of sense about Audio Interfaces. If I may add to his advice, I recently installed a Mackie Spike for another musician and it is brilliant. The mic-preamps are the best on any sub £300 model, so vocals that you capture will be at their truest. The owner uses it with an SE2200A and the results are scarily good for the price.

Finally and not many people advise this on this forum, but get APPLE LOOPS Sound Developer Kit, mash up your beats in your audio sequencer, and import them into the above program and you will find that thing that all musicians/DJ's seek.....Originality.

Apple Loops SDK 1.1 can be downloaded from the Developer website at Apple (after a bit of searching)- And once again it's FREE!

Ce message a été modifié par B3 Basher - mar. 10 mai 2005, 08:07.

[coldharbour]

Apple Loops SDK 1.1 can be downloaded from the Developer website at Apple (after a bit of searching)- And once again it's FREE!

That's really interesting - what's the difference between the Apple Loops Utility that comes with Logic Pro 7 and SDK? Does SDK require X11 environment or such - I mean is it usable for musicians or just for *nix wizzies?

[Adrian Delso]

The Mac Mini may be fast enough, but you'll need a lot more RAM and Apple charge the earth. Get a G5, as you suggest.

If you are starting absolutely from scratch and are not planning to use MIDI extensively, I'd look at ProTools. Digital Performer is also highly spoken of. I'm trialling Metro 6, which seems excellent and good value for audio and MIDI.

I have been using Logic Express for over a year and would not recommend it to anyone who has not been with Logic since the Atari days! Although it's powerful and has great instruments and plug-ins, it's a bitch to learn and use. IMO.

[DannyMac]

Cheers for the replys guys!

But isn't Garageband limited to 8 curves?! Read it on Apple's homepage. Don't you think that you're geting very fast to the limits? Even if you're a newbie?

And are Loops like "2 Steps Ahead" from Apple usable for Garageband? If so, Garageband would really be a cheap alternative for a newbie...

[DannyMac]

Ok, I've checked and surfed and checked and surfed... and this is what I thought I would buy:

- Mac G5 (2x2 GH dual, 1GB DDR400 Ram)
- Edirol PCR-30 Keyboard
- Garageband Jampacks / Apple Loops
- M-Audio Firewire 400
- Edirol MA-10 2.0 monitors

Do I need ANYTHING else to make good music on my mac (using Garageband at first?) like a mixer or s.th.???

Cheers,
Dan

[Atahualpa]

Posted on May 9 2005, 11:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND: If you're saying that a G5 1,8 GH would be enough, why don't use the Mac Mini in order to reduce costs?

Would a Mini 1,42 Gh be still enough?

The G4 processor on the MiniMac will be more than enough to run Garageband, and even some more professional sequencer software, however, once you start using plug ins and effects and tasks that are RAM demanding, you will find yourself very limited with the 256 MB that come by default and I don't think you can upgrade your MiniMac to more than 1GB...?
Ciao, A

[opiepac]

I've been meaning to reply for a while, but had to search for my login/password to the forums. You've gotten some pretty good experienced advice, but I'm somewhat of a newb (at least in the mac/music world) so I thought my perspective might be of assistance.

I have slightly different musical needs - mostly real instrument recording is what I'll do, so I'm less into the loops/midi/audio instrument stuff, but here's what I've done:

I bought one of the new Dual 2.0 GHz powermac's stock config (yes I know I don't have pci-x and it maxes out at 4 gigs of RAM, but I still thought it was a good buy) from an apple retail store (so I could get it the day Tiger came out, yes I'm impatient). Apple charges too much for RAM, as most will tell you. I took the stock 512MB, and then added two 512 sticks from Crucial, to give me a total of 1.5 GB RAM. On a PC the most I've ever had was 1 GB and they don't even use it as well as OSX does. Ram is definitely a good thing to have. An expensive computer, that I'll be paying for for quite a while, but I don't mind.

I bought an M-audio Firewire Solo interface for $200. I know M-audio has had driver problems in the past. I also am aware that this unit can totally destroy your firewire port if you hotplug it. If I had it all to do again, I might buy a different interface, but ... I really wanted something with firewire over usb, and this was half the price of the presonous firebox. I like the unit a lot, and it fits my needs. It only has two inputs, but for me, I'll usually have 1 mic and 1 instrument (guitar mostly). But if you will need more inputs in the future (recording a 4 piece rock band or something like that) you can never add inputs to the unit, so you'd have to upgrade to a new interface. Me - I'm okay with two.

By the way, since mine was one of the new Power Macs, it came with Tiger installed. There wasn't much "do I upgrade?" choice for me. I wanted Tiger a lot. And I'm not as concerned with stability because I am not depending on this machine to make me money currently. I am using the M-audio drivers for 10.3. They haven't given me any problems, though I've heard other units by M-audio haven't worked right with Tiger.

I am looking at getting a decent Mic - probably a Rode NT1-a.

I use Logic Express. I wish I could afford Logic Pro, but I can't, and I probably am just fine with Express. I played around with Garageband, and liked it, but I wanted to just jump in to Logic. For me it was the sooner the better (as I knew this was the sequencer I wanted to use) and I need to get over the learning curve and start being productive.

I guess I forgot to mention, I mainly set up my DAW for writing music and recording demos. Also, I have an ambition to one day become a recording engineer on the side, so I want to slowly learn at home, in addition to learning from friends of mine who run studios.

You will be happy if you decide on what you're talking about. I sure am. I might have to check out that keyboard you mention, as I do want to mess around with the audio instruments a bit. Maybe add some cool synth textures to my music.

[opiepac]

Forgot to mention, I haven't gotten monitors yet, but use Sennheiser HD-580 pro's for my headphones. Some of the best closed ear headphones there are. I love them.

[lepetitmartien]

The extended use of headphones for monitoring is a bad health idea… people tend to use them too long and too loud.

A common reference right now is the Sony 7506 and 7509. Good sound and closed.

I'm very suspicious on the choice of the Edirol monitors (forgot them in the avoid monitors). They are just "computer speakers" (i know the family, ooooch!). Tannoy, Samson, Krk, event, Berhinger… make decent to good entry level monitors. (I don't recommend Behringer usually but the monitors seem nice enough and are well suited for "dance" material) I may forgot some companies but these are good tracks to follow. If you can, you should really go in a shop and listen to them with music material you know and of the style you will mix, and some stuff (voice, classical, unplugged…) to have a larger picture.

[DannyMac]

Thank you all, once again. Am afraid about those "fake" monitors I wrote in my list...bad thing.

I think I'll start with Garageband first and get a few experiences as it's coming alongside with iLife on my new mac. The Loops and Samples are usuable for both, Garageband AND Logic. So if Garageband doesn't satisfy me, I'll upgrade to Logic.

But does anybody know how many Loops/ Samples can be recorded in one session? I wrote s.th. about a limit of 8?! I think this is not to much.

[StevieBoy]

As I understand it, you can record up to 8 tracks simultaneously. As to the limit of tracks you can have in a tune, I've not yet reached a limit and I'm using the old version. It gets a bit slow when you have lots of tracks, but I believe GB2 has a freeze function which would help with that, too.

So unless you want to record a band and need more than 8 tracks going in at one time (which I don't think is what you intend) then GB2 would be enough for your needs.

[DannyMac]

I understand.

Am I able to play own melodys or am I ltd. to samples?

[aurios]

All this information has been extremely helpful as I am trying to set up something as well. My particular challenge is this: I have a Roland Vs 880 that I used for awhile in the dark ages and I want to figure out whether I should scrap it or somehow integrate it into something new. How to integrate it is also a key issue.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[StevieBoy]

DannyMac, you can record your own stuff as well. I record vocals, electric guitar, bass and use the softsynth that comes with GB. I use an FW410 and it's fine for my needs (and probably overkill).

I also use the samples, which are surprisingly good (though I reckon maybe about 20% are really useful).

The best thing about the samples is that they're in Apple Loops format, which means they're not tied to a particular tempo. You can have the same loop going at 60bpm or 250.

Aurios, I don't know much about MIDI and suchlike, but I would think you can use the synth Line Out as the source for a Line In on your interface.

[DannyMac]

DannyMac, you can record your own stuff as well. I record vocals, electric guitar, bass and use the softsynth that comes with GB. I use an FW410 and it's fine for my needs (and probably overkill).

I also use the samples, which are surprisingly good (though I reckon maybe about 20% are really useful).

The best thing about the samples is that they're in Apple Loops format, which means they're not tied to a particular tempo. You can have the same loop going at 60bpm or 250.

Aurios, I don't know much about MIDI and suchlike, but I would think you can use the synth Line Out as the source for a Line In on your interface.

Sounds nice! But I'll need a Synthie- instead of Midi- Keyboard to get good sounds for an electronical tip (if you want to play complete own melodys), won't I? Thought that Midi- Keyboards just control the Loops/ Samples you're using.

[coldharbour]

Sounds nice! But I'll need a Synthie- instead of Midi- Keyboard to get good sounds for an electronical tip (if you want to play complete own melodys), won't I? Thought that Midi- Keyboards just control the Loops/ Samples you're using.

There are built-in software instruments in Garageband, and even more in Logic Express and even more in Logic Pro.

In Logic there are really wonderful analogue modelling synths, like ES-1 and ES-2, not forgetting the wonderful EXS24mkII sampler.

I see you're going for GB,you can read more about GB's software instruments here.