Help Dad Get Daughter Started!, A complicated (for me) Christmas gift Options

[chanzilla]

For Christmas, I want to give my teen daughter a "portable music studio." I'm not rich, but she has shown great promise in the studio, so I want to encourage her even more with the perfect gift.

Here is where I am. I am donating my Pismo 500 with Jaguar. I will upgrade to Panther if highly recommended. Um, that's as far as I got so far .

Here's what I'm aiming for. If she gets a tune forming in her head, I'd like for her to open up the Pismo, launch an app, and start fingering the notes together with an instrument of her choice. She can record the simple tune, and play it back for review, change the instrument on the melody if she wants to. She can create another track for drums, etc. Once she has her draft version, she can save the file or burn it to CD (there's a modular burner I picked up on eBay) to share. Is this possible? Can it be that simple, or is there a learning curve?

She does have a nice Yamaha keyboard I gave her last Christmas, which she enjoys and has shown enthusiastic talent for. It has a MIDI port, and I know I'm going to have to dish out for a USB-MIDI interface -- any recommendations? While she already has a music keyboard, I want her to be able to create on the road with just the laptop, if possible.

Also, if she wants to add vocals or a non-digital instrument (my acoustic guitar, for example), is it hard to do? Can she just plug into the mic jack?

What is a good program for recording music tracks? For a beginner with room to grow? Does it take more than one program to do what I described above? Where can I go to learn more about how all this stuff works?

By the way, if you haven't figured it out, I know NOTHING about music production. I am a mac addict, but that's about it. I need to learn just enough to help her get started. I appreciate any help, advice, suggestions, links, references, whatever you can provide to a fish out of water.

[korektphool]

Try going to Steinberg's website and look up Studio case. it is an entry level sequencer and included are five vstis. It is affordable and can do what you described above.
korektphool

[rickenbacker]

It sounds like you should read a lot of the Getting Started posts here in these forums. Your solution-sourcing headaches sound awfully familiar.

You need a Midi interface (for the keyboard), an audio interface (for the guitar and vocals) and sequencing software (to record it all), right?

As a Mac addict, I would sincerely recommend Logic as the software. Owned by Apple, it is solid, reliable and very powerful - even the entry-level version. This used to be called Silver, with Gold and Platinum being the higher-end versions. Now the basic version (still incredible) is called Logic Audio.

There are bundle deals, including the very popular Big Box, which has software synths and so forth included. Emagic, the company behind Logic, also make interfaces - you might like to look at the A62m, which has both Midi and audio in one little blue box. Check www.emagic.de.

A lot of people might recommend Digidesign's Mbox, with Pro Tools LE software, but personally I don't think it's right for your daughter's set-up. Logic seems more appropriate.

Whatever you choose, it won't be cheap, but like everything in life you get what you pay for.

Happy hunting - come back with more questions as you narrow the search.

[annadyne]

Hi there,

Let me first mention that I'm a girl and I have 4 macs that I use for music. One of them being the Pismo 500.

I will give you some very helpful tips that will work for your CPU without taxing it. This is what I use on my Pis500:

0) Make sure you have at least 384MB RAM. This is the absolute bare minimum to get into music these days if you want to record audio without crashes. 512MB will even be better.

1) Beware of people that encourage you to get software that uses a bunch of 'VST' 'RTAS' or 'TDM' instruments. I don't mean effect. I mean "Virtual Instruments'. The aforementioned formats are respectively for each of the companies that makes Audio&MIDI Recording software.
Virtual Instruments are EXTREMELY CPU heavy.

The 'Studio Box' previously mentioned has a collection of Virt. Instruments some of which will turn your sweet little CPU into roadkill in a wink. Same with buying Logic and using some of its VIs.

2) www.propellerheads.se. The best instrument solution that is highly CPU efficient and will run like a charm on G3 500 is to go buy a copy of Reason. $299 - $349. Yew, yeow. BUT it is the most CPU efficient software instrument program on the market. It has synthesizers, drum machines, sample players including sounds for pianos, orchestra, etc. Plus there are lots of instrument 'Refills' on the company's site that will give you more sounds .

3) www.ableton.com. 'Live' is a great program that you can feed the output of Reason into, so you can simultaneously record audio - voice for example, while hearing and playing your Reason song. It's expensive but you may find an earlier version of it such as 1.5 (bug-free) or 2.0 (actually 2.1.2 is the bug-free version or 2.0) for less than $299.

4) Midiman Uno - single MIDI port interface.

5) Edirol USB Audio interface. OR Echo IndigoIO PCMCIA Audio input and output card.

6) Yes, you can probably get away with using the Mic inputs. God knows I did until I later on got a MOTU 828 Firewire interface. But you may experience a bit of time lag which we call 'latency' - in other words the time delay between when you hear the pre-recorded or Reason-sequenced audio playing and the actual sound that you're recording at the moment.

6) www.audiomidi.com. These gals and guys are really nice and will take the time to answer all your questions.
www.sweetwater.com is also an excellent place with informed people that can help you out. I've ordered and been very happy with both these outfits. www.musiciansfriend.com is good for discount prices but some of their people are not so knowledgeable about computers and software.

7) When asking about software to run on the Pismo, be sure to ask if your CPU can really accomodate it well.

8) Alternate software:
Musys - for recording audio. Don't know if it has Rewire capability which is needed to 'wire' Reason into an audio recording program. Don't have the link.

Logic - most inexpensive version. Just be sure you have Rewire.

9) CPU UPGRADE FOR PISMO!!!!- available from company with good reputation -. Upgrade your Pismo to a G4 550 Mhz for $340.00. Go to www.xlr8.com and check out their Pismo specific upgrades. I'll be getting one of these for mine soon. There are other companies that make accerators but I read a very good review from someone who got to personally speak to the CEO before going through with the upgrade.

11) Partition your system drive and put apps and sys software on one part and audio recorded on the other. Keep them separate. Or get cheapie external firewire drive for recording raw audio. You can buy them for $110 now.

12) If you invest in the software and other stuff and your daughter does for some reason not like the 'Pismo Studio', the package you have created will be very tasty to a potential buyer who can't afford to buy one of the new laptops for music production.

13) There's a lot I haven't covered but this should be a good start.

14) Almost forgot - you can pick up the latest issue of Computer Music magazine (from UK)- at a good indie newsstand or chain bookstore - and the CD included will come with free fully working, non-demo instruments, effects and recording software that you can pop on and use right away!!!!! Musys should be on there.

Any more questions - email me at annadyne@yahoo.com

Good luck!

Annadyne Liz
Secret Orange Star
NC, USA

[rickenbacker]

Well, Reason is fine software, but quite expensive to start with and not spectacularly easy on the CPU. Live definitely is not easy on the CPU. I have both programs, so I know what it's like running a full song.

Also, you cannot record ANY audio into Reason, nor can you expand the program with plug-ins (ie add on other instruments or effects) in the future. You get what you're given. Granted, what it comes with is pretty good quality, so you can get a song going instrumentally, but if all you want to do then is add a vocal, you need a whole different program just to record it.

Really, Reason is geared towards people making four-on-the-floor dance music or electronic experimental music, not piano and guitar-playing singer-songwriters. As soon as you actually want to record something live, Reason is useless to you. You can do rock/alternative music - Reason is just a tool, after all. But as soon as you want to stick on your guitar or vocals, forget it.

If you then buy Live to record audio alongside Reason's Midi, you've just bought two programs for $700. Why not buy Logic Audio and an audio/Midi interface for $500 or less in total? Then you've got everything in one place and you can record any kind of music that grabs you, no limits. Reason is cool, but not on its own.

I would argue that Logic is ultimately as easy - if not easier - on the CPU and more suited to chanzilla's daughter's needs. For under $200, he can buy audio recording and Midi sequencing software that will keep pace with his daughter's forays into songwriting for a couple of years, maybe more. If she gets really into it, she can upgrade Logic or buy other software to complement it.

You also get three synths included (bass, lead and pad), which are pretty good and built right into the code of Logic. You also get all the FX processing plug-ins to produce a great mix (reverb, overdrive, chorus and lots more). Plus you can add on any plug-ins or soft synths you like in the future (if you have a Mac that can handle it) and you can ReWire Reason to it, if you end up buying that in the future.

OK, chinzilla will also have to spring for an audio interface, but his daughter probably needs one of them regardless. Using the Mac's built-in sound is a frustrating, disappointing business. Tascam do a good range (the US-122, 224 or 428 - the 122 is $150 or so), as do Edirol - avoid M-Audio products, to be honest.

Yep, the Pismo's CPU is going to take a beating whatever program it runs. Maxing out on RAM is definitely a wise move, whether your Mac is brand new or 5 years old.

The Computer Music magazine tip is a good one - they have produced a series of free instruments that would be worth checking out to start with, all of which are usually on the cover CD every month. That might be a good place to test the water.

It's a complex business, this computer music lark, and no mistake.

[xingu]

....and FWIW, I don't believe Logic Audio is even sold outside of the Big Box package anymore. And the current version (6) is Rewire compatible.

[chanzilla]

Thanks, Anadyne. My Pismo has 640MB, which may get upgraded to a full gig.

Unfortunately, I just found out that my G4 Workstation may not be coming through, so my daughter may be stuck with her Rev B iMac through the holidays. I still intend to hook her up, but I may have to wait a little longer .

In the meantime, I will be setting things up and testing them out. I've been playing with some freebie software I found here, and it has been a learning experience. I am playing with SimpleSynth and MIDI keys to better understand what's going on. First off, using the computer keyboard for input isn't the novel idea I had imagined. But I see now what a virtual instrument is, and MIDI channels. And, even though this is for my daughter, I myself am beginning to see why she enjoys this stuff so much.

Thank you so much for the personal testimony about the Pismo. RAM/ CPU useage are things I didn't really think about, and didn't realize that different applications/technologies would have different impacts on the computer. I use my Pismo for web developing and graphic work, using Photoship 7, a slew of plug-ins, Carrera, Poser, and VirtualPC (to run Frontpage2000 - I do ASP development, and Access 2000), Flash, and more, often simultaneously. Under OSX, it's not only feasable, but rather pleasant - OS8/9 couldn't really handle such demands, and crashes were horrific.

I've heard mixed reviews about Reason. My neighbor complained that you have to run 3 CD's to use the application properly. And keeping the disk images on the hard-drive takes up space.

I'll start checking out your recommendations today. What's Rewire?

I don't want to invest too much initially. I want to put something together to get her started. If she takes to it, and shows me she can use it, then I'll kick down some more bread. The more she gets into it, the more I'll spend. That way, if she turns out to not really want to do digital production, I'm not at a complete loss. I'm thankful for all your input to help me make the best decisions possible, and for not making me sound like an idiot when I present all of this to her.

[chanzilla]

Good thoughts, RickenBacker. Cost is an issue, isn't it always?

To put it all in perspective, my daugher is 13, exploring her talents and interests. Actually, she is freakin' awsome with cgi, mastering Poser and currently trudging through Cararra on a 233MHz iMac. Last Christmas, I spent $250 on a full-size Yamaha keyboard with a bazillion instruments and features. I can't remember the model name, but it was a display model with a missing manual, a few scratches, etc, but fully-functional. I was going to get her a cheaper basic Casio keyboard ($75 - $100 was the original budget), but I knew I would have to upgrade sooner than later with her. She took to it well, beginning her lessons only a week after. Within a month, she began making her own tunes, and recording them onto cassette tape. I accidentally found the tapes while reorganizing her "workspace." the next time she came to visit (I live in California, she's in NC with her mother), my roommate, who produces hip-hip, took her to the studio a few times. She went home with a song that she composed and arranged with only guidance from the engineer. We even photoshopped a cover and insert to give it a professional look. In NC, she has no such friends, resources or connections. And that's when I thought about a portable studio for her. She currently has a strawberry Rev B iMac, but I think it may be too slow. Until I get her this Pismo all set-up, I'm considering sending some of the freebie midi software to use, and a USB MIDI interface, just to get her started. Once she's comfortable with that, then comes the Pismo with some professional software.

What do you think guys - good idea or bad idea?

[rickenbacker]

Seems like a good plan. Start slowly, gauge the interest and step up the equipment spec as the skill and passion develop.

There are some cool free or shareware software solutions on this site, plus others available on the web. The Computer Music series would be good if you can get hold of a copy of the mag and there's also Pro Tools Free.

You can get this from the Digidesign site, I think. It should run on your daughter's iMac in OS 9 without too much trouble - if the iMac has some sort of audio in (does it? I don't remember), she can record basic audio tracks using this sequencer. I think it handles 8 tracks of audio. Don't know about Midi.

There's also a new sequencer called Tracktion, which looks like it might be interesting. A demo of the final beta version is available from their web site (Google will deliver the URL).

Saying all that, keeping things strictly Midi for now will be a lot less strain on the ol' iMac's CPU. Midi has a tiny data footprint, so you can run dozens of Midi tracks very efficiently.

Finally, ReWire is a streaming protocol that Propellerheads (the developers of Reason) created to allow people who owned Reason to "plug it in" to, say, Logic or Cubase. It means you can have both apps open and run the outputs from Reason into your mixer in Logic. So you've got some great drums going in Reason, set up ReWire in your Logic song, there's your drums in the Logic mixer and you can then record your guitar, vocals, harp solo etc alongside the drums. It's a neat solution.

But you're right about the Reason 3-CD set. It sounds great, but it's 1Gb or more of data on your hard drive. Unless you buy a separate FireWire drive for all your sample CDs and audio tracks...

[macmidi]

If she's using OS9. go get a $15 copy of the magazine, Computer Music.
It includes a free audio/midi sequencer app, free instruments - including a sampler and free loops.
Actually, I think a cool gift would be to buy her a subscription to the mag as it's perfect beginners midi mag. every barnes and Noble or Borders Books has a copy.

http://computermusic.co.uk/main.asp

It is published in the UK, so the price is about $100 for a year's subscription, but every month she can learn more, and get free instruments, demos and free loops.

Here's what's included:
http://computermusic.co.uk/about/aboutvst.asp

All you'd need to buy would be a cheap midi interface.

My two cents.

Ce message a été modifié par macmidi - mer. 10 déc. 2003, 21:10.