Motu Plug-ins, How do the plug-in formats differ? Options

[glaader]

I´ve got a MOTU 828 MK II, and I run my studio on a G4 Dual 1,25 under OS X.
I´ve understood that OS X won´t accept VST plug-ins, but what if they are available in MAS-format? Will they:
1. Work under OS X?
2. Take load off the cpu and put more load on the MOTU-hardware?
What is MAS exactly? Is it better than VST? Does it work under OS X?

[parky]

MAS is Motu Audio System, it's basically their own audio engine like Steinbergs VST technology. Yes it does work on OS X, also if you're using the latest Digital Perfomer 4.11 it can run apples new audio units plugz and instruments too.

Ian.

[glaader]

Does it work exclusively under Digital Performer? Or can I use the MAS-standard with other hosts, such as Logic Audio?

[jklimeck]

OK, hope this this helps

1) OS X does support / use VST plugins for hosts that use VST plugins ast thier main format, like Cubase and Logic

2) Digital Performer does NOT use (or support) VST plugins (without using some wrapper technology which to me is crap at best, so we are back to square one DP does not use VST as their plug in technology


A little history on plugins and formats Mac OS etc,

in the Mac OS 7, 8, 9 days Apple did not have a system wide technology to handle audio or midi, this left other companies to invent their own.

Thus Steinberg (and therefore Cubase) came up with VST as their audio plugin standard and licensed it to Emagic, thus Logic supports VST. Steinberg also needed a midi technology so they (i believe used OMS (Opcodes Midi System) developed by Opcode

MOTU did not wish to use (license) VST or Opcode OMS, so MOTU created MAS, MOTU Audio System and MOTU audio plugin format and developed Free Midi as MOTU's Midi system

The comes OS X, thank God. OS X has layers to its OS including core system services / technologies above the main OS Kernel layer. Core Midi handles all the midi at the OS level and Core Audio handles all the audio at the OS level. As part of Core Audio there is a section that handles DSP, and Apple calls this Audio Units or AU.

Digital Performer and Logic both support AU (not sure about Cubase) and Free Midi is now dead, becasue on the Mac Core Midi is the standard OS level Midi technology.

My observation here is because OS 7-9 did not have these core technologies, companies were forced to create thier own and they became a type of marketing ploy for companies to push their own software versus the competition, I can use VST plugin and you can't or I can use certain MAS plugins and you cant. It set up a what I see as a divineness in the Mac audio / midi world, a silly and unneeded divisiveness. (but because of Apple's no unifying technolgy, companies had no choice.

But now companies do have a choice and Apple has mad it for them, devlelop Apple audio software, must use Core Audio and AU

So OSX with Audio Units is a good thing, it unifies the Mac audio plug in community, but you still have a huge VST following because certain plug ins are VST format and may never be developed for MAS or Audio Units, this is a way for companies (really only Cubase now to get DP or Logic customers).

It is interesting, because you can see it this way. MOTU software wise is really a Mac (only) developer DP only runs on Mac and probably always will, Now that Apple owns Emagic, Apple has announced its adoption to AU and all must follow

DP and Logic will be totally AU at some point and MOTU will eventually cease MAS, no more need to continue it.

I think what Cubase will do is eventually cease development on the Mac, and VST will be a totally PC thing.

Not sure if Apple / Emagic will take VST out of Logic, probably not in the short term.

So to answer more of you question if you want to use VST plugins you have to use Cubase or Logic or a host that support VST (not DP)

If a equivalent plugin in VST land is not available for MAS, you are SOL, have to run that plugin on a VST host.

Although I bet you can find a equal or superior plugin on the MAS or AU side.

VST is very popular has a large following and many users.

some companies like Bomb Factory have not released (yet) there OS X AU plugins but have committed to OS X AU, when will they come, don't know.


Your question about taking load off the CPU. No such thing in a Native system (using MOTU harwade) (not Pro Tools or DSP assited cards).

Here's the deal. You are using a Native system. Meaning the computer is 100 responsible for playing back tracks, mixing them, plugins, effects, everything. The only thing the 828mkII does or any MOTU interface does, is do the Digital to Analog conversion and vide versa.

People don' realize that if for example you have 50 track project playing back the computer is 100 % responsible for mixing that, effects, software , harwadre, etc, the whole nine. Your host app (DP for example) take this already processed signal and sends a 2 track stereo left / right digital signal over FireWire or (PCI bus) and the MOTU interface hardware takes this digital 2 track signal and simply converts it to Analog and to your studio monitors.

You want or need more tracks and processing power,

Youmust add faster, wider bus, etc. computer hardware (in this scenario).

My suggestion: a Dual 2 GHz G5 with 2-4 GB RAM, of course, that'll do the trick, hundred of tracks.


Does a VST plugin perform better than the same plug in in MAS or AU, or vice versa, in my experience it's all about the same, but I have seen Mach 5 for example perform better as a VST than an AU or MAS plugin, which is odd.

take care,

sorry for the long post, hope it helps.

GO Apple, GO OS X, and hey MOTU how about an update for DP 4.11 (too slow and crashes) and Mach 5 (way too slow and hangs)
Let's do it.

Oh yeah and how abut a cheap G4 headless Mac for 700 bucks or less, so we can really put a dent into the argument for PC users to use PCs as the base for their DAWS, claiming price as the main concern.

This has to be PC's only remaining concern in my experience, because doing audio in Cubase on a Fisher Price looking Windows XP on any fast or otherwise PC, is a god awful experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

peace

[formatj]

1) OS X does support / use VST plugins for hosts that use VST plugins ast thier main format, like Cubase and Logic

2) Digital Performer does NOT use  (or support) VST plugins (without using some wrapper technology which to me is crap at best, so we are back to square one DP does not use VST as their plug in technology

So OSX with Audio Units is a good thing, it unifies the Mac audio plug in community, but you still have a huge VST following because certain plug ins are VST format and may never be developed for MAS or Audio Units, this is a way for companies (really only Cubase now to get DP or Logic customers).

It is interesting, because you can see it this way. MOTU software wise is really a Mac (only) developer DP only runs on Mac and probably always will, Now that Apple owns Emagic, Apple has announced its adoption to AU and all must follow

Not sure if Apple / Emagic will take VST out of Logic, probably not in the short term.

So to answer more of you question if you want to use VST plugins you have to use Cubase or Logic or a host that support VST (not DP)

Logic does not support VST plug-ins in OS X, it never has (only in OS 9).

Logic and Performer can both however use VST Plug-ins using fxpansions VST to AU adapter.
http://www.fxpansion.com/products_auadapter.html
This works very well in Logic (I have over 20 VST plug-ins working) and also supposedly works well in Performer.

The VST plug-ins must be carbonised i.e. re-written for OS X. You can't run OS 9 versions of your VST plug-ins.

DP and Logic will be totally AU at some point and MOTU will eventually cease MAS, no more need to continue it.

Not so sure about Performer ceasing MAS development.
Logic has its own format of plug-ins written into the program itself e.g. ES2, EVOC20, Space Designer Reverb, EVB3, EVD6 etc....
MOTU can write its own unique plug-ins for Performer in MAS format.
These program specific plug-ins may perhaps entice new users to a particular sequencing platform.

[jklimeck]

I stand corrected.

Thanks.

I'll have to look at this conduit for VST to AU.

jk