Apogee Mini-me & others, Pros & Cons Options

[Presto]

Digitmus, you say "Latency is pretty bad on it (like anything USB)..."

The Mbox can be considered to have ZERO latency and its USB, but then again it only has 2 I/O. UrbanMat, are you sure you need more?

If you're using mikes for actors as well as noises, you should look at the DPA miniatures (sweat tolerance and good for percussion too).

[Teiwaz]

Sure Presto, but latency for Digitmus (as he himself pointed out) is not an issue when he records in the field with his laptop. He has some of the most impressive kit I have seen on this forum, so if the Mbox was better (!!) I'm sure he would be using it.



Sound quality is of the essence here. The Mini-me is a pro sounding piece of kit.

Digi's Mbox is not such a professional sounding unit (it's decidedly semi-pro), near zero latency or not, and it simply can't be pitted against anything Apogee put out there.

It also depends if one relies on a USB convertor for EVERYTHING one records/mixes, or just for capturing audio in the field and then importing it into a pro rig back at the studio.

If you rely on the Mbox for everything including overdubbing, then it may be great as a handy one stop solution, but in the situation of having to use a USB interface, I know what I would rather have...a clearer, professional sounding recording (Mini-me), and split the input into a small mixer for monitoring during recording...after all, you're stuck with a recording once it has been made, and it reflects on one's professionalism as to how good it sounds. It all depends on what/who the recording is for at the end of the day.

Horses for courses...

[Presto]

Teiwaz, you say "Digi's Mbox is not such a professional sounding unit (it's decidedly semi-pro), near zero latency or not, and it simply can't be pitted against anything Apogee put out there."

On what do you base this comment? I don't believe you are unbiased. Could you explain the meaning of "decidely semi-pro" when you talk about the Mbox as compared to the mini-me (doesn't apogee say its not really 96K - only 48K for the moment?).

I know of musicians with loads of "impessive gear" including the Mbox, so at least they don't think as you do.

However I cannot give any comment on comparative quality as I have no experience of, and know nobody local with the mini-me.

I do hope you have first hand experience of the two, and are not just giving us salesman talk.

Still, you also say "it all depends on what/who the recording is for at the end of the day". I agree, but I would add that once you get to the Mbox level, the quality and money you spend depends particularly on the mics, the environment, and of course the person making the sound, and the sound/music itself. There's no point paying more for quality in a piece of equipment if the rest of the chain doesn't reach that quality.


Anyway, UrbanM, I'm recording lots of noises too (using an Mbox) and the Mbox/Focusrite solution is perfect for me. Even if people did take a close look at your 'bruitage', I'm sure they would find no fault due to an Mbox which is great value for money.

OT (I'm not a moderator here ): Holli. My Selmer alto sax is N° 18767 (British Agent). Would this give an idea of its exact age, or anything else? Not sure if there's enough to say about saxes to warrant a Topic

[Francois Déchery]

Mbox is a semi-pro equipment because its converters can't compete with Apogee ones.
Apogee has made its name from its converter quality: Professionnals often replace expensives Digidesign converter (or sony ones, or mackie ones, etc...) with Apogee ones which are REALLY better (and really more expensive...).
I didnt heard the mini-me but i expect it to be at least as good as their previous AD1000 which is excellent...

FYI, M-Box has a BIG (monitoring) latency
The only clever thing about latency is the knob to mix the analog input to the monitor output.

BTW presto, your new avatar is funny

[Bart S.]

The MiniMe has USB I/O and ASIO drivers for getting signal into your DAW.

Don't you get USB extension conflicts?... Do you have other USB devices already connected (modem, trackball...)?

[urbanmatador]

thanks for the advice, everyone. i've been lurking for a while, and it's nice to feel supported by the community.

so one more question to pose: what's is the best device for multichannel output? it sounds like most of you folks are ultimately putting your work onto a cd or mp3 or some other stereo playback format... my work is played back "live" dring a show, and i want at least four independant channels.

thoughts?

[holli]

haha, and damn the topic!! Presto, I believe your sax is a 1934 Radio Improved model, it came after the cigar cutter design (weird crook) -and an early one at that. Quite an old girl! If ever you need very specialist work done on this kind of instrument, I have a great contact here in the uk, sax players travel from across the country and Europe for his fine skills .

And back.. . If it's worth anything at all, Teiwaz is not a salesman! I've known him for quite a while and this is definately not the case! However, if I could appeal to you Presto as a fellow man of sax (well, you don't have to trust me, but hey!), he's one of the most technologically aware and sophisticated producers I have ever met. Also very rare, as I've found to my peril in the last few months working in other studios, to find someone who is in equal measure a fine musician in the traditional sense and is thus flexible and sensitive enough to respond to the material or artist. Thoroughly bloody good bloke.

Recently, a client played the outputs of his internal soundcard (g4) through my desk, we were syncronising a project I'd set up roughly. I had programmed a rough 'vibe' mix to enable him to continue writing, logic env etc. Mainly getting the bottom nice and tight and fat. He was shocked at the difference of the same track being played through my 2408. By comparison, the internal soundcard sounded bloody aweful. Bass flimsy, flopping, no integration of parts, even to the point of giving the impression of timing errors in the programming. Not to mention the highs. Yuk.

Anyway, my point is if we equate this huge difference (internal vs 2408) to an 100% improvement, my recent listening to Apogee convertors seems at least to offer relatively another 50% improvement (2408 vs apogee). Maybe it's more, but thats on the limits of what I could perceive as being better. I would tend to trust Teiwazs ear for quality over mine!

So, anyway. Hi Urbanmatador.

If you are going to do multichannel work in a theatre, honestly, I would avoid the 828, or 001, or similar. Normally I love Motu, as has been said here before -good build quality, reliable, easy to use, of course v. good conversion, BUT... do listen to the outputs on the 828.
They are unbalanced, making them subject to cable bourne noise, v. bad for long cable runs in theatres, usually having birds nests of cables and older mains wiring, not to mention the lighting rigs (bzzzzzzzzz). Also, they are quite noisy compared to the main outs (which are balanced). With lots of amplification in the auditorium, this will be intolerable. The noise floor of course rising the more outputs you use simultaneously.

The only audio card I can advise with any reliability which has multiple balanced outs, all of the same quality, and will also reject the interferance associated with theatre work internally (fat metal case) is the above mentioned 2408. I don't know of anything that comes close without spending alot more dosh. Perhaps someone else here has experience of something else that will do what you want. Best of luck, Holli xxx

[Presto]

Well, Urb. You have got lots of answers at different levels. Great isn't it.

Yes, soif is right about the latency trick in the Mbox, but that's all I need, it suits my budget, and I believe the quality suits the rest of my stuff. You need 4 outs though. Hey if you have a restricted budget maybe you can get more than 2 outs on the Mbox. I'm not in a position to look now but will have a look tomorrow. Noooo! Silly idea! You want the sounds to come out in 4 different places on the stage.

OK Soif, you are probably right about Teiwaz's opinion and Holli has a high opinion of him too, so I suppose I must back down. Dammit! Only partially though - poor Teiwaz is unfortunate and only has a RED rose!

OT Thanks for the sax info Holli. I'll send you an email

[Teiwaz]

Hey, Presto!!

Your turn to get the drinks in...and maybe I'll give you a blade of grass, but I'm saving the red rose for my wife.