Got a G4/400, Where can I go from this? Options

[jce44]

That's it

Max the RAM to 2 GB, and you're flying
Note it'll be noisy by today's standards

The only point I strongly advise you is to use it either in OS 9 or in OS X only, not both and switching. That's the thing that makes them behave crazily.

You'll be able to upgrade the processor later if need be, but by this time, you'll be on macintels. On the drives, it can be made better, but you'll be up and running with this.

There's not very many posts nor much info in MM about processor upgrades (G4) and making music.

One post (replied to by "Newbies", such as myself) says to stay away from a processor upgrade and save up for a new or used G5.... Another, recent post explains that certain Audio Interfaces aren't supported with processor upgrades.

I've got a G4 AGP Graphics Sawtooth, 400 MHz, 1 GB RAM (can add more), original 10GB HD + added 110GB HD. Use (but not often) 9.2.2 OS on the first HD & OS 10.3.9 on the second HD. Added a PCI card w/ 3 USB 2.0 & 1 FW port

My budget is limited. My recording needs are small and mostly personal/ non-professional. But I've got music that needs to be done. 3 piece band w/ guitar, lead & bass, digital piano, vocals. I've been reading these posts for a few months now and trying to figure out-

1. what Audio Interface to buy? < $500.00 (seems that Cubase software is preferred?)
2. and which processor upgrade to go for? (limited 100MHz bus speed)

I changed my mind from the processor upgrade to the Mac Mini last year. That way I'd get the external HD (firewire to my G4) AND a CD burner AND a faster processor, but now they're onto Intel processors... ??

I understand that I also need to add external HD? and I need to get a decent CD (DVD too) burner.

Please, some help here? Can I upgrade my (beloved) G4 and make music?

Thank you.

[lepetitmartien]

I've splited the thread to give you a better space…

On the question of CPU upgrades, A place like XLR8yourmac is a good zone to see the main advantages of the different upgrades available (check first which on you can find…) a few manufacturer are trusted enough around (by musicians) and a few rules are to be observed:

- Will it have to work in OS 9 and X or only X?
- don't go "too far"
- avoid dual processors upgrades
- trusted: Gigadesign, Sonnet
(now you have a bit of homework to do)

Note that no editors nor manufacturers will claim support of CPU upgrades, never. But you should know that Gigadesign upgrades are trusted among Pro Tools pro users…

I'd be cautious with your dual boot (OS 9 and OS X) as it's a common source of problems along the way… They don't share the hard drives in a pacific way unfortunately and sometimes one drive forget to mount, which can go up to loosing data because of a directory destroyed.

On the interface, something from M-audio should get you on just fine. You may even find something more higher end second hand. Look closely on compatibilities as some like the Digidesign 001 are not supported further than 10.3

On the sequencer/DAW, it's partly a religious question, partly depends of the job to do… As you seem to be into a live act with acoustic instruments, going the Pro Tools LE way would be a good idea as it's certainly the fastest/easiest to chop/cut/paste audio around in an elegant manner. If you want to try virtual instruments (after a processor upgrade you may a little, though a CPU > 1GHz would be a good idea then) products like Cubase, Logic in their lighter forms could du the trick, but Metro for example has some evangelists squadrons around

Note that with M-audio interfaces you have access now to a version of Pro Tools M powered for cheap

You don't need necessarily an external HD, you can have more than 2 HD in your G4 (3 or 4 from memory), now you'll have to have a dedicated HD for audio, and max out the RAM as OS X LOVES RAM… DVD burners are cheap now, you can install one internally or if you buy a firewire enclosure, integrate your own. Prefer Pioneer and Nec models these are good workhorses, and usually have firmwares which can be modded (another long story).

Think closely upon the investment needed, as at one point, to grab a second hand G5 or a dual G4 will be a better choice (cheaper as time goes by). There are threads already about the macintel question, I won't cover it here.

I think you have already quite something to think about…

[jce44]

Thank you very much for your informative reply. I'll study every option carefully.

I've been evaluating G4 processor upgrades on XLR8yourmac for over a year now. (They were priceyer then, that's why I flipped to getting a MacMini, and then now back to an upgrade). And somewhere in that time frame I decided to record my music on my Mac.

XLR8yourmac is a great resource, but a little weak on the audio recording specifics. I was not happy to understand that "no editors nor manufacturers will claim support...", BUT, now I know for sure. And I understand that "not claiming support", doesn't mean that it won't work. I'm way too reluctant to pay my money, before I know for sure.

I can't upgrade to a dual processor because my ASIC revision=3

I'd like more info on the dual boot issue? My OS 9.2.2 is dedicated to the initial, 1st HD. And OS 10.3.9 used on the 2nd, added, larger internal HD.

My intention is to use OSX exclusively for recording music. I don't use OS 9.2.2 for much besides old games/software...

I'm checking on the Gigadesign upgrade. Until now, I was swayed to the Sonnets. I don't understand the L2 & L3 cache thing? How does this affect recording ability?

I appreciate your patience and thank you very much for your expertise and reply.

[lepetitmartien]

Yes XLR8 is not helpful for audio but you can easily see if the upgrade is a pain, or impairs some types of activities (for exemple, anything impairing floating point or altivec should be avoided for Audio).

We have quite a few users happy with their CPU upgrades, it's mainly gigadesign and a few Sonnet (pro tools, Logic users from memory…)

On the dual bot issue, it's a problem only us and TidBits have been vocal on it heavily. Once in a while (Murphy's law at work…) as OS 9 ans OS X don't handle drives the same way (they don't write the same things in the invisible partitions at the beginning of the HD) sometimes, something slip when you boot on the other system. it can be benign (a restart and up you go) to some real hair pulling fights, including some loss of data if the directory is destroyed. Some powermacs are more prone to this than others, there's no written law. For exemple, my G3 BW in a year of dual boot did it twice, and it solved easily thru restarting from the OS X install CD and tell it the start up disk again. My firewire external HD had a much worse time (lost GB of data, fortunately, nothing important) switching between 9 and X. A friend had months of fights with her G4 (though no loss of data, but some serious headache to make the computer start up again in the desired OS…).

The most important thing you can do to prevent most of the problems (but not all) is to have X and 9 on different drives, which is your case; You're lucky and you don't know it

L2 and L3 caches are as L1, memory caches to store data and instructions for the processor. L1 is included into CPU for some time now and is usually at the same speed as the CPU. L2 is on the CPU board, as can L3 and they are slower. L2 is usually half speed, L3 it depends. In size, L1<L2<L3 (cost of manufacturing is exactly the reverse btw). The presence of L3 is only justified when a significant speed up is measured if it is present. As the use, in the end, is to make sure the CPU doesn't run out of data or instructions when needed as it runs way faster than RAM, it's optimized.

Don't be obsessed with L2 and L3, look at the performances in the floating point/altivec zone, and also a little on the way the CPU handles drives (if it's significant).

(mhmmm geeky as hell LOL)

[ruczaj]

I've G4 400 too... It doesn't handle with larger Reason tracks (larger means i.e few matrix = "computer is too slow..."). RAM + CPU upgrade are the way to refresh this stuff.
As I know, M-Audio external cards doesn't work if You have an G3 or G4 upgrade card aboard.
To be honest, I don't know why. Some Sonnet cards (1.4 mhz or 1 mhz) are just switching original CPU, without any installation and system affection. You just put the card and go ahead.

[JakePeake]

I also have a g4 with 400 mhz. Luckily I got 1.19 gbs of ram. But when I record audio on logic it stops to often. I can't remember for sure but I think a box comes up that sayd Core audio overload, or somethin close to that. If I upgrade my processor will that do the trick? Isn't 1.19gbz of ram enough? I checked out xclr8yourmac. The Giga Designs 1.25GHz CPU Upgrade seems like its along the right path.
I do all my instrumentals using virtual instruments. Please help. I just wanna record some vocals, and I can't afford a G5 right yet.
Thanks

[ali macdonald]

Try hiking up your disk buffer to the max(you will suffer latency, use your card as a direct monitor ,to get effects to your ear muffs,use a pre fade on your aux send to effects bus etc on your record enabled track have the Record tracks fader right down so you dont get that horrible doubler effect of latency .and that should help. minimise number of accessable audio tracks use 16bit recording 44khz look for anything that takes up processor space.And do not record onto your System Drive.not good.if still having no luck get a faster newer drive always helps,cheap too.

[JakePeake]

Thanks Ali.I'm not a real computer guy, but I'm going to try to do as you suggested, its appreciated. Does anyone have a sureshot processor upgrade for the G4/400?

[cornutt]

My intention is to use OSX exclusively for recording music. I don't use OS 9.2.2 for much besides old games/software...

Will the games and things that you are still using OS9 for run in Classic? If they will, do that instead. It doesn't cause the disk mount/dismount problems that dual booting causes. I quit booting to OS9 as soon as I procured Metro 6, but I still use Classic mode all the time. (Among other things, I have an old Usenet news reader that I like.) I haven't had to boot from the install CD in ages, and booting up takes less time since fsck doesn't have to fix all the things that OS9 messed up.

[jce44]

JakePeake, You'll see my posts on this subject 'cause I have a Mac G4 AGP graphics with a 400 MHz processer also. I've put 512 Mb in all 4 RAM slots to max it out. I've also studiied the processor upgrade for the last 18 months on xlr8yourmac. The prices have dropped dramatically in that timeframe. I decided on a Sonnet 1.8GHz. Sonnet because they've had the least complaints on all of the reviews, (and I know their company's reputation from past carreer experience), and 1.8 MHz because it was the fastest.

Problem is, I've put 2 of them in now, and can't get one to work well. I am SO hoping that it's just a case of "Murphy's Law" and something karmically wrong where I live? (I've payed my dues now karma, let me be!)

But I really MUST say that returning the 2 CPU upgrades, and Sonnet support, has been one of THE BEST, bad experiences I've had in these troubling times! I'm hoping the "3rd time's a charm" works well and that the flubs were a fluke!

If you read through all of xlr8yourmac reviews on the G4 processor upgrades, Sonnet wins out. Virtually no complaints. And this website DOES have a little info on AUDIO.

I'm gonna keep you posted on the next (3rd) install. Sonnet told me that they would not send another one without knowing exactly what was wrong with the last on, and testing the new one before they sent it.

BTW (-Cornutt, the games in OS 9 will not run in OSX. I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if they'll run in Classic?