Fed Up With Firewire 410, What's a reliable alternative for a Powerbook? Options

[stimpy]

The 410 has never really worked. Every driver has some kind of issue. Hanging MIDI notes; Loss of audio monitoring, being just the most recent things. It's well spec'd, but doesn't deliver. They've had long enough to get it right..

I need something with solid dependability, low latency and the usual. I'll move away from Cubase and Garageband and get a new DAW.

WHAT'S GOOD?

MBox 2 Pro? At least it'd come with a good DAW..
or
MOTU UltraLite? and maybe get Logic Express or something?..

[lepetitmartien]

What do you use it for usually and what do you need software wise?

I'd say jump on the M-box or other Digi hardware if you're using almost only audio while in the computer. If you want extensive MIDI support, don't need specific RTAS/AS plug-ins, Logic may be a better choice and then the audio interface side of things is way more open.

[stimpy]

Thanks for the input.

I'm demoing song ideas with instruments (real, and software i.e. Sampletank 2XL), but also triggering software drum sounds live, as that's my area.

So I record audio a lot, but I need lightning latency with MIDI.

It's a nightmare of compatibility! I thought a 002 control surface would solve it but obviously they're financially prohibitive.

[lepetitmartien]

Logic express may be a better idea then, more possibilities out of the box, and you can learn enough before jumping to the pro version (possibilities gallore). The MIDI side of Logic can't be beaten. Now, I have no first hand experience of mixed audio and MIDI interface. We need some input there anyway.

One MIDI port is enough or not? (talking about either out or In/out couple)

Presonus makes really great interfaces, you should check them out too. For MIDI only interfaces, MOTU can't be beaten. For the audio and mixed ones, it's more open (Presonus, RME, MOTU are serious guys).

The Digidesign route should be taken if you plan mainly to process audio where it's very very straightforward. plus PT sessions are a bit of a standard (as Logic projects) if it's important. Its MIDI side is fine but not as deep as Logic (and I mean deep). Now, envisioning PT means at least one piece of Digi hardware, you can still complement with something else. There's a real choice of work philosophy between the different DAW so I think the first thing to decide is which one?

[stimpy]

Yeah, I think that Logic would make more sense then, specially as I'll trigger a lot. I've also read it's less processor hungry.
(I suppose I could get an MBox2 Pro, and buy Logic to run with it as an alternative to the included LE, but that's obviously at more expense.)

As for the Interface suggestions, RME, Presonus, MOTU...
It seems the MOTU UltraLite has the option of many simultaneous audio inputs like big PT, which as a drummer that is attractive (the 410 only allows 2 analogue at any one time). I saw a Tascam one that included a control surface which would be great, but I'm reluctant to try stuff I've not heard a lot about.

As a newbie can I ask, can you map those individual inputs to different channels in the DAW, or do they get bussed to a stereo track?

If the MOTU is a stable option with good drivers, I think it's MOTU UltraLite & Logic.

I've sometimes gone months without being able to record, because of the 410..
Thanks once again lepetitmartien.

[lepetitmartien]

Yeah, I think that Logic would make more sense then, specially as I'll trigger a lot. I've also read it's less processor hungry.
(I suppose I could get an MBox2 Pro, and buy Logic to run with it as an alternative to the included LE, but that's obviously at more expense.)

I can't tell on the CPU side (the known hogs are Cubase and DP) but for now, Logic doesn't seem fully optimised on Intel somehow (there's contradictory reports on stability).
Anyway, you'd better try Logic express first, as Logic is a realm in itself not easy to grasp at first. PT is way more easy to learn, note that the "simple" MIDI in PT is enough for a lot of people so it may not make sense to go further.

As for the Interface suggestions, RME, Presonus, MOTU...
It seems the MOTU UltraLite has the option of many simultaneous audio inputs like big PT, which as a drummer that is attractive (the 410 only allows 2 analogue at any one time). I saw a Tascam one that included a control surface which would be great, but I'm reluctant to try stuff I've not heard a lot about.

I've only heard issues on the smallest tascam (install problems, which get solved), when we don't hear about an interface ether it's not sold a lot, or it's a breeze to operate. to give an extra input on the above companies products:
- MOTU, good and very good converters, best MIDI interfaces around (the only pro competitor btw), usually trouble free operation save some I talk about below. Drivers on Mac are rock solid.
- Presonus, very good converters, very nice (transparent) preamps, the driver issues get solved in less than a month (and no problems for some tie in this regard)
- RME, Very good converters, solid drivers, but it's sometimes confusing to understand their range (save the firewire interface now)
- If you need something better it's Apogee and the like

As a newbie can I ask, can you map those individual inputs to different channels in the DAW, or do they get bussed to a stereo track?

Usually on MOTU, RME, Presonus you can do what you want, the complains on this issues I've heard were mostly on M-audio hardware, on small interfaces with a peculiar use in mind (like recording instrument while singing).

If the MOTU is a stable option with good drivers, I think it's MOTU UltraLite & Logic.

As long as you avoid the 828 family (erratic hardware issues on mk1 and mk2) the rest is a breeze AFAIK.

I've sometimes gone months without being able to record, because of the 410..

I can't use my 2408 mk2 for know because I can't upgrade the PCI card you know (can't find back my serial number) so I can understand… one day I'll get fed up and move on to something else among one of the 3 contenders.

Thanks once again lepetitmartien.

lpm for short my pleasure

[cheekypaul]

Hold On!
I use the 410. It's damn near perfect.
The midi issue... let me guess, you use Pro Tools? Go to the Library/Audio/MIDI Drivers...Take out the ones you're not using. Especially any Digi ones (if you use M-Powered) or take out the M Audio ones (if you use LE).
Hope that helps.

[lepetitmartien]

Hello Cheekypaul, our friend uses Cubase and GarageBand for now, not PT.

[cheekypaul]

Hello Cheekypaul, our friend uses Cubase and GarageBand for now, not PT.

oops, I noticed a little after I posted.
Though... Drivers for midi and audio from different packages do clash sometimes. It may be worth trying to isolate. THe 410 is excellent. Absolutely no problems here. Good luck...

[t_a_burrows]

My experiences with the FW410...

AUDIO: I use the FW410 with my new MacBook Pro and it works absolutely fine recording into DP and Live, and playing back any standalone sound modules - and it's also pretty good from a latency point of view when recording vox. However, I used to have A LOT of problems running it with my old G4 iBook - these were mostly to do with getting the FW410 software to route things correctly. And may well have been a result of my own stupidity rather than anything to do with the product.

MIDI: I have to say that I've NEVER managed even to make the MIDI side of it work! But since I use a USB mother keyboard these days that doesn't matter to me. And, again, that may be my own stupidity there...

I bought the 410 as a cheap way of recording good quality audio on a laptop, and for that it's great. I don't think I could recommend it for anything more serious than that, though. I certainly don't feel as confident with the 410 as I do with the MOTU PCI set-up I have on my "proper" Mac. And I think if I'd known a few years ago that I was going to be doing an increasingly large proportion of my work on a laptop I would have gone for something a bit more substantial, probably MOTU Traveler.

Terry