Various Hardware/software Combinations Confusing.., How much is enough/too much/flexibility Options

[arenson]

I am glad I found this forum. Various posts on Apple's board and Harmony Central led me here. I have read many reviews and ads, talked to a number of people, and have an idea what I need, wi tha lot of loose ends remaining. Would appreciate any advice. I have looked at the following, which seem more or less to fill my needs, but at vastly different prices and levels of difficulty. I am trying to write my question in a way that will be useful for others, not suimply to repeat what others have said. That is why it is longish, to try to put all products in perspective. Sorry if it is too long. The more I consider, the longer it becomes.

I am aware there are other sub-forums here, but HARDWARE seems the most relevant. Hope I am posting to the right one.

HARDWARE I AM CONSIDERING
Digidesign 002, Tascam 1082, Tascam 1884, Yamaha MLan 01x. While these differ in price, they all seem similar, with the lower priced Tascam 1082 looking similar to the expensive Digidesign 002. The higer priced Tascam is still less than the Digidesign (at least in Japan it seems). Yamaha is in the middle. I am wary of various things. Maybe a chart would help....


MAIN NEEDS

(1) A firwire interface for me to record digitally to my Powerbook 1.5 Ghz Power PC G4 (1 GB DDR SDRAM). It should have a control surface. I am of the old mixer school. I feel more comfortable if I can manipulate dials and faders.

LEARNING CURVE
(2) Also, I am learning disabled (left brain tasks) to a certain extent. Diagrams of patches, routes and things like that leave me confused, though I did ok when I had a small patch bay and several open reel multitracks 120 years ago. I learn by trial and error, but the above problem caused me to ditch a Roland hard disk recorder because the learning curtve was too much for me. So I hope to find out if the equipment can be used with other than the bundled software, should that be a problem.


PAST SOFTWARE EXPERIENCES
(3) I taught myself Cakewalk (Windows) basics for radio show recording in multi track and did ok. With MIDI, I have a better experience with MOTU's Freestyle Sequencer because it seems more intuitive and forgiving, but I do not think MIDI will be my main thing. Though I wish to have it available, I probably will do more recording of keyboard audio out.

WILL SOFTWARE BE COMPATIBLE WITH GIVEN HARDWARE
Given my experience with Cakewalk, Garage band is similar (though have heard on their forums that the new version 2 has problems with crackling and popping). I have alternately been told that ProTools is easier than Digital Performer, which is easier than CU-Base, which might have problems with OS X. None of this can I confirm, though. Just what others have said.

AND SO MY QUESTIONS ON THE ABOVE HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE

TASCAM 1082 or 1884 (800 dollars and 1500 dollars in Tokyo)
(1) Tascam seems to come bundled with CUbase but may be compatible with Protools and Digital Performer. I don't know about Garageband. Considering that I need software that is easy enough to learn but not that limited, I am listing these 3. Maybe there are better choices On the other hand, a look at Tascam's manuals made me wary. Seems more complex than it has to be. Should I consider instead the others:

DIGIDESIGN 002 (More than 2000 dollars in Tokyo)
(2) Digidesign ships with LE version of Protools. Is this enough or do I need some upgrade? Conversely, I have seen that it may work with other soft but wonder if anyone knows more. Specifically the above Garageband 2, Protools LE and Digital Performer.

YAMAHA MLAN 01X (About 1300 dollars in Tokyo)
(3) Have only recently heard of it, and it seems to be playing with new standards. Since I have experience with the Japanese watch industry, I am always wary of such things and new standards. Also, their Japanese online manual seemed to imply that OSX was not supported, though OS 9 is!!!!!

FOR ALL:
AUDIO INS AND OUTS AND CONTROL OF SOFWARE
(4) Does each have enough inputs for my mics and lines (I had to get rid of M-Audio Firewire 410 for this reason). I have 2 mono mics (Shure, have normal big phono plugs, can use those 3-prong balanced cables if need be), and 1 stereo mic (Audio technica), plus a Yamaha P250 keyboard (want to connect either stereo line out AND/OR MIDI out), plus 2 guitars (6 and 12-string RAINSONG) that have audio out). Plus I will want to connect my portable Mini-disk (SHARP) either via analog or digital. Not necessarily all together, but occasionally may need to when others play together).

MULTITRACKING
(5) If I use any of the above hardware with any of the above software, can I expect to use the faders and dials to record:

(a) several tracks at once (up to the number of inputs)

(b) additional tracks after initially recording one or more tracks
(I have seen that some hardware claims to have a digital WORLD CLOCK, implying that without it one would have problems)

© EFFECTS: I am not into them much, but I do think I will need equalization (either while recording on on mixdown) of EACH CHANNEL. Likewise, I will need to add echo (well, digital delay I guess), just to add presence and a sense of spaciousness. Can I do this easily, and is it via the hardware or the software (I know Garageband has it to some extent)?

-while recording (on selected tracks)
-while listening and mixing down to stereo

MIXING TO STEREO FOR CD ROM, ORANGE BOOK CD, MP3 for Internet
(6) I will primarily be making MP3 files for my Internet radio show, but will also want to burn CDS (mostly CD Roms, but real Orange Book MIGHT be useful). Can I accomplish this via the faders and dials (mix down). Likewise, see above 5C.


Well, lots of questions, but I hope they are sufficiently inter-related to be useful not only to me. Maybe one hardware/softwrare combination is better than another depending on one's skills and needs. Maybe what i really need is not listed. I have heard other names, like Mackie (but they seem to have a control surface without audio inputs). Am open to buying from abraod (Ia m in Japan) should Japan not have the best options (manuals often have to be downlaoded in English, which is what I prefer to use in such cases). Thanks in advance, and once again, hope my post is useful not only to me.

[shaneblyth]

I'll just point you in one direction as it is the one I have a little experience in.
It really does depend on what your style of recording is.
I am a one man band so dot need to record mulitple live instruments at once, My setup is Mlan based, Motif ES7 keyboard and I use the A/D input on the Motif ES for vocals and live guitar bass ot whatever i need to record a live instrument. I use the onboard DSP effects especially the Compression and reverb/echo on vocals and other A/D inputs... keeps it all digital and as mlan only has 1 firewire cable to transfer all audio and midi it is extremly neat. I hate Cables.
For you I would head over to www.o1xray.com to checkout the 01X it is an awesome mlan device they are a great friendly bunch too.
also www.mlancentral.com
I did forget to mention that I use the Motif ES as a control surface.
If I was doing multitrack recording i would of bought an 01X they are now selling for $999USD at places like www.audiomidi.com
there is a few great video demos of the 01X and Mlan products on both those sites above.

Hope this is of some use to you as you look for a great system that suits the way you work

[Nels]

arenson, ....Stay away from the O1X, unless you're using Cubase ...and then you're still likely to have problems.

Sorry, shaneblyth, but i have to at least attempt to guard folks from the falsity of the O1X, which by the way, why hadn't you mentioned the sequencing software that you're using with the O1X?

...Way before it's much awaited release, I researched the O1X and all it's mLan implications. As a lot of us did upon first reading all about the O1X & mLan, I thought to myself, "WHAT A GREAT SETUP THAT WOULD BE ..AND WITH SO FEW CABLES. WOW!" So, I waited and waited and then waited some more for it's release. It was one false release date after another and that went on for almost a year. Then, on the very day the O1X was finally released(5-7-2004), with great anticipation and excitement, I purchased the O1X. ...First the Transport Controls wouldn't function right, then I noticed the scratchiness and flutter of audio on play back. It was one thing after an other, until finally I got in touch with a Yamaha rep. that informed me of driver issues among other things. "Why hadn't these issues been revealed to the public?".., I asked. All he could say with any certainty was that they were working on a fix. He went on to say that all should be resolved within the next 30 days. ....That's when I finally started to smell the stench and so I returned the O1X for a refund. ...I was one of the fortunate ones.

I don't believe that Yamaha had intended for the O1X to become a farce, but that's indeed what the O1X has become. Last I read, the O1X will work with Cubase, but still to date will not function as said to with Digital Performer, which is what I use, or any of the rest. Believe me, no-one is more disappointed than I, except of course, those poor folks that are still waiting for resolvement. To date, the O1X issues have not been resolved. In fact, the Yamaha rep. just recently wrote to me stating ..and I quote, ..."WE'RE MAKING GREAT STRIDES WITH THE O1X." ...It's a shame, ....cause it would have been great.

Lastly, I'll say........ On the subject of Yamaha's O1X and it's mLan, there are many lines to read between. Hopefully, those of you that are presently smitten will not be taken for a loss .....and those of you that make the claim, that the O1X is working fine, ....please do elaborate and don't leave anything out.

.....And so, the attempt has been made.

[shaneblyth]

arenson, ....Stay away from the O1X, unless you're using Cubase ...and then you're still likely to have problems.

Sorry, shaneblyth, but i have to at least attempt to guard folks from the falsity of the O1X, which by the way, why hadn't you mentioned the sequencing software that you're using with the O1X?

...Way before it's much awaited release, I researched the O1X and all it's mLan implications. As a lot of us did upon first reading all about the O1X & mLan, I thought to myself, "WHAT A GREAT SETUP THAT WOULD BE ..AND WITH SO FEW CABLES. WOW!" So, I waited and waited and then waited some more for it's release. It was one false release date after another and that went on for almost a year. Then, on the very day the O1X was finally released(5-7-2004), with great anticipation and excitement, I purchased the O1X. ...First the Transport Controls wouldn't function right, then I noticed the scratchiness and flutter of audio on play back. It was one thing after an other, until finally I got in touch with a Yamaha rep. that informed me of driver issues among other things. "Why hadn't these issues been revealed to the public?".., I asked. All he could say with any certainty was that they were working on a fix. He went on to say that all should be resolved within the next 30 days. ....That's when I finally started to smell the stench and so I returned the O1X for a refund. ...I was one of the fortunate ones.

I don't believe that Yamaha had intended for the O1X to become a farce, but that's indeed what the O1X has become. Last I read, the O1X will work with Cubase, but still to date will not function as said to with Digital Performer, which is what I use, or any of the rest. Believe me, no-one is more disappointed than I, except of course, those poor folks that are still waiting for resolvement. To date, the O1X issues have not been resolved. In fact, the Yamaha rep. just recently wrote to me stating ..and I quote, ..."WE'RE MAKING GREAT STRIDES WITH THE O1X." ...It's a shame, ....cause it would have been great.

Lastly, I'll say........ On the subject of Yamaha's O1X and it's mLan, there are many lines to read between. Hopefully, those of you that are presently smitten will not be taken for a loss .....and those of you that make the claim, that the O1X is working fine, ....please do elaborate and don't leave anything out.

.....And so, the attempt has been made.

i dont use an 01X i use a motif ES7 and mlan and use that witrh Digital Performer... I didnt need an 01X
I havent seen alot of compaints about the 01X especially recently with the updated OSX drivers for mlan.. but as i suggested go to 01Xray.com and check it out there and ask away.. you'll soon get an idea if it will work easy enought within your setup and do what you want easy enough
the 01X has been out for a long long time now and has gone throught a lot of revitions... yes they did have alot of trouble but i believe that it has been sorted out now and there seems to be alot of happy users about but as i said judge for yourself as it wasnt necessary in my setup.

[arenson]

Well, the more I read, the more confusing. But thanks for the feedback. Meanwhile, email from Mackie tells me I DO NOT want their Universal Coontrol.....but they fail to answer about their Onyx mxier with firewire..... this seems to be a regular mixer that will, with the firewire port, allow me to record tracks using the mixer 9though not send anything back to the mixer)....Well, a poor person/s Digi002 or Tascam (though the Tascam seems to allow that sort of thing at cheap enough prices....even cheaper than the Mackie Onyx with Firewire.)

http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1220/index.html




Then I see the Command 8
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Produ...Category=Mixers
from Digidesign, but not-strangely-on their own page!!!

Maybe a discontinued model?



Makes me wonder again...all the reviews of the DAW control surfaces, say that the task of integrating with various software is daunting......but often works great....


Makes me wonder whether io don't want to take a regular mixer and run it through my firewairte interface and jkust mix down to two tracks BEFORE entering the computer...the old way. Then build more tracks....


INPUTS--->MIXER--->1 or two channels--> firewire--->computer.

Which seems to be what the Mackie onyx is, except that the onyx will presumably give you all 12 tracks....


Hmmmmmmm. Do i really need to have control surfaces that move in response to what i do in sofwtare and vice versa? If I can get the tracks in via the Mackie Onyx with firewire (or a regular mixer putting out two channels) and then tweak the signal via the software, isn't that guaranteeing a greater degree of suvccess for someone like me who is just trying to get stuff into the computer in the easist way and have it sound good?


Your thoughts on this?


Thanks!


paul

[arenson]

Well, decided to get Firepord. it has all the inputs i need, and I decided I can live without interface..will use the screen!


thanks.

paul