Monitoring While Multitracking--w/o Latency?, How do I monitor during playback w/ USB? Options

[marley]

Hey Rockers,

I know similar topics have been beaten to death, but I can't find the answer to this specific question. I've got a 1.25 Ghz iMac with 1 Gb RAM, and I just bought a used M-Audio Duo to start multitrack recording. I am so far only using Garage Band, though I plan to advance from there, and I have found that playing through the software results in an unacceptable amount of latency, even on the "low latency" GB setting. I figured out how to use the "Stand Alone Mode" button on the Duo to monitor through the headphones without latency. That's great, but I can't find a good way to listen to my existing tracks while monitoring the track I am laying down.

What I've been doing so far is wearing headphones to monitor the live track from the Duo, and having the rest of the tracks play through the computer's speaker system. This sort of works, but is less than ideal. Is there a better solution, or is this a limitation of USB? I'm sure some of you smart people know how to get around this dilemma. I'd love to hear your suggestions.

Marley

[hahaworld]

Hi Marley!

My experience has been that Garage Band is great as a sketchpad for putting down some basic ideas, but the best way to record live sounds is into Logic or Pro Tools (both of which I constantly use with great satisfaction). I will warn you, however, that the manuals that come with Logic AND Pro Tools are little more than huge novels of information randomly scattered around in the most confusing manner possible. They are both WONDERFUL programs, and actually fairly easy to use once you get set up, but getting set up and started is impossible to do by just reading the manuals alone. I think somewhere along the way, the guys who designed these programs got too big for their britches and assumed everyone automatically knows digital recording terminology. Personally, I'd like to have words with the people who have written these manuals, because I'm a step-by-step kind of guy...not a search-through-the-index-till-I-find-a-word-remotely-related-to-the-trouble-I'm-having-and-then-not-find-a-shred-of-intelligible-help-at-all kind of guy. I realize that the pros out there might read my post and say, "What a stupid little brainless neophyte," but I don't care. I sincerely believe there are others out there in the world like me who just once would like to read a manual that says something like, "Thanks for buying our software/hardware! STEP 1: Hook this cord that looks like this (picture here) into the slot that looks like this (picture here). STEP 2: Click on the menu that looks like this (picture here) and select this (picture here). STEP 3: Play something on your keyboard that you hooked up like this (picture here). STEP 4: Hit this button (picture here) and you'll hear your music!"

Anyway, find a friend who knows how to use these programs and let them walk you through it step by step. You'll soak it up in no time. Garage Band is fun for ideas, but buy ProTools and Logic for the real deal.

Sincerely,
hahaworld

[marley]

hey haha,

Thanks for the advice. I am definately interested in Logic, especially since I can get it through Apple for $150 with the educational discount. I'm glad to hear it will be such a step-up. Are you implying, though, that there is no good solution to the monitoring-during-playback issue I asked about in Garage Band? If not, how do Logic and Pro Tools solve the problem? Will I be able to eliminate the significant latency I get in Garage Band when I monitor through the computer? From reading other posts it kind of sounds like you can only minimize latency, but not eliminate it. If this is the case, can you really make it so insignificant that you can effectively monitor during playback? If you can't, it seems like the inexpensive USB devices that don't let you playback and record through the device at the same time are very limited.

Also, I've heard people suggest using a separate how-to book when using these more sophistocated programs. have you found any books you'd recommend?

Marley

[dten]

You could also consider Tracktion -- it's cheap, intuitive, small resource footprint, and I've heard good things about latency with it. Has some features the big boys don't have, and vice versa, so it depends on what you need.

User forum here.

[marley]

Cool, thanks dten.

I enjoyed the forum thread. I will definitely at least demo Tracktion before making a purchase. Honestly, the thing that appeals to me most about Logic Express is the Fender Rhodes synth that comes with it. That may not be a good enough reason, though, if I can get decent-sounding synths for cheap/free.

[hahaworld]

Hi Marley! I haven't had the latency problem you speak of, so I don't know much about it. Maybe someone else will post something that can help you out.

As far as using separate how-to books for using Logic, I haven't found any that are simple enough to use. The best way is to find a friend to sit down with you at your computer and show you step-by-step. One afternoon of that, and you'll be running Logic like a pro!

hahaworld

[brimijoin]

you are just plain going to have latency issues with USB interfaces. I used the DUO for some time along with Deck 3.0 - I had no end of latency problems and it ended up making me move to Protools. But for projects and songwriting and whatnon, I always used this low tech stopgap method:

on your first track, before you record anything else, record 8 beats of a metronome. Then on the same track, lay down your guitar or drums or whatever you are recording first. Then when you overdub, you hear the 8 beats and you tap along to the last four beats (the first four are to get ready) and then play along with the track. Then when the new track is down, you just zoom in on the beginning and slide the new track until your taps are best lined up with the last four beats of the metronome.

repeat with each new track.

sounds silly, I know, but it works very well and it involves no extra money whatsover.

and then you can spend more to get a package that has automatic latency correction (weren't they working on that for Protools LE? anyone?) sometime when this method gets too darn annoying.

[marley]

Thanks brimijoin!

I appreciate the detailed suggestion, though I'm somewhat disappointed that such a low-tech method is needed. I'm wondering, do you monitor your live tracks as you lay them down, or just mute them and listen to them live from your amp or whatever? Does Firewire solve the latency issue?

Marley

[brimijoin]

I monitor live - one ear in the headphones, one on the instrument. If your instrument doesn't make a live sound, then I think you are in trouble because the latency will be large enough that monitoring through software while playing back existing tracks is going to be all out of synch. Best of luck - like I said, the issue made me move to a firewire interface (and that solves the problem more or less).