Live 2.01 Impressions, or "ableton listens, users rejoice" Options

[filarion]

Paid my 80 Euros to upgrade to Live 2.0 a couple of days ago. Awesome new features like different timestretch engines (acoustic guitar tracks actually can be used in Live now), ability to turn those engines off for individual samples, better automatization, etc.

Performance looks to be the same like 1.5 - which means that it still isn't Altivec optimized, and faster on PCs, but the Ableton guys are Mac users themselves and are promising to add this (requiring a bunch of rewrites) for the next upgrade. Anyways, especially with software like Live the performance is nowhere near as important as creativity.

[charlieb]

Hi,
I read a post the other day about Logic and does it make sense to buy Logic since they should have the best info on what is coming next on Mac's and how to best use the OS with music.

I am still whatever comes prior to being a newbie as I haven't even bought any soft yet. I have been receiving good advice from various members though.

I was thinking of buying Live and Reason, and then I got to wondering if it made more sense to buy the Logic Big Box bundle, as perhaps a better long term investment.

What do you think?
Is Live plenty good and thus no worries?

Happy to hear any and all comments.


Charlie

[filarion]

Difficult to answer without knowing what kind of music you want to make.

Live + Reason is a great team for electronic music, but I personally do not like Reason's user interface. with live 2.0 it's become easier to sample/record live using punch in/out, but if you want a serious recording/sequencing solution Logic is the way to go. Live is great fun and my favourite piece of software right now, but despite it being easily accessible I believe that you need a certain experience and discipline to use it like a tool and not a toy (but hey, it - like Reason - is a fun toy). so, my advice for seriously exploring the groovy world digital audio would be the Big Box bundle...

[charlieb]

filarion,
Thanks so much for your opinion. And I am waiting to hear more.

Is there no such thing as a Logic demo? I did not see one on their site.

Thanx,
cb

[filarion]

mmh. there used to be a "fun" version with very basic functions.. your best bet is to set up a demo at a local dealer though. those guys usually have a clue about the major sequencers and even if it's a 2 hour drive an investment like that should be worth it. emagic here in germany is also doing "demo tours" through music stores across the country holding free seminars and stuff.

[charlieb]

Live + Reason is a great team for electronic music, but I personally do not like Reason's user interface. with live 2.0 it's become easier to sample/record live using punch in/out, but if you want a serious recording/sequencing solution Logic is the way to go. Live is great fun and my favourite piece of software right now, but despite it being easily accessible I believe that you need a certain experience and discipline to use it like a tool and not a toy (but hey, it - like Reason - is a fun toy). so, my advice for seriously exploring the groovy world digital audio would be the Big Box bundle...

Hi Filaron,
A little confusing for me to understand your meaning. Please clarify:
You say that Live and Reason together is great. This is clear.
You say you don't like Reason's interface. Do you have another synth that you prefer?
You say that Logic is the "serious" way to go, which I get.
Then you say that Live requires a "certain experience and discipline". In this regard I thought that this statement would be even more so for Logic, and thus I got a bit confused.

And with the Logic Big Box Bundle, would I still want to get Reason?

Thanks for your help.

cb

[filarion]

You say you don't like Reason's interface. Do you have another synth that you prefer?
You say that Logic is the "serious" way to go, which I get.
Then you say that Live requires a "certain experience and discipline". In this regard I thought that this statement would be even more so for Logic, and thus I got a bit confused.
And with the Logic Big Box Bundle, would I still want to get Reason?

I don't like how Reason tries to "emulate" a real rack. Sure, it looks nice, but it's not very effective to work with in my opinion. I prefer clean, nice GUI's like Live and Logic use. I work with a lot of MIDI gear, so no, I don't use a lot of software synths. I like reaktor, absynth and max/msp though (all of those are pretty experimental - not for everyone).

what I meant with Live requiring discipline is - it is a relatively focussed and limited working environment. you're working with samples and only samples. arrangement, finetuning of loops are everything. plus, I could never use it as my only music production tool because of those limitations. Logic has a lot of functions you might not use for a year, but that's no problem since there's so much to learn and discover. logic platinum (the gold bundle probably too) also has a great written tutorial book that comes with it. to put it simply, you don't learn how to make music on computers (in the "classical" sense) with software like Live or Reason, but with soft like PT, Logic or Cubase.

of course, I still don't even know what kind of music you want to make - reason + live will work great for minimal techno for instance, good luck scoring a movie or tracking vocals though.

as for the Big Box Bundle, you'll be busy for a while. The EXS24 is a very musical sampler.

[charlieb]

of course, I still don't even know what kind of music you want to make - reason + live will work great for minimal techno for instance, good luck scoring a movie or tracking vocals though.

as for the Big Box Bundle, you'll be busy for a while. The EXS24 is a very musical sampler.

Hi filarion,
Thanks for keeping up with me in more than one thread.

My main work is leading workshops in which I help people to enter into what I sometimes call "everyday trance states" in order to facilitate learning, and a sense of health and well-being. I help people to tune into their experience, and then with the help of some circular space cowboy music, I help them to feel into the movements in their body that they are not usually aware of. Sometimes I suggest "Let the music play you."
I have been using a lot of CD's by artists such as David Parsons, Steve Roach, Steve Roach, Steve Roach <g>, etc.
Lately people have been asking me to record my workshops so that they can buy the CD's of the workshop to listen to and continue to learn from. This creates the problem of creating a legal, ethical, and workable copyright situation.

Sooo, I thought that I would like to try creating some simple "heartbeat rhythms" for people to listen to and move with. Something ambient and circular in nature.
If I was able to accomplish this first step with some reasonable success, then my next thought would be to overlay my voice on to the music tracks, giving suggestions concerning relaxing and becoming more aware.
I was thinking of Live, with Reason, and perhaps an Edirol PCR-50 or a Radium.
Then I got to thinking about whether or not Logic was a better long term buy, even though I got scared off by people saying it was pretty hard to learn.
So, I am in no particular hurry, and wanting to make a good decision.

Any and all input is welcome, and I have been talking to some of you nice folks some in the Just Gettin Started Forum.
I am happy hear any and all opinions.

Regards,
charlie

[filarion]

your work sounds very interesting and I think that you'll be extremely happy with Ableton Live then. my previous suggestion was from a producer's point of view. from an artist's pov I'll heartily suggest Live, especially since you're in a dynamic environment and not only producing by yourself

I'm not really comfortable with suggesting Reason as addition, but it is the easiest way to create new sounds to use in Live without external gear - well, sampling your soundcard's input is even easier if you want to use external gear. For instance, I usually play my Waldorf Pulse basslines into Live - loops really come to life when recorded live in my opinion. extreme vocal manipulation and basic "clean" vocals work in it too.

you can also crossfade between different patterns easily in live, plus, you can put complete songs into your arrangement if you still want to go back to steve roach without interrupting the flow. :>

have you tried the Live 2 demo? there's also some free samplesets at the ableton homepage (check out the david moufang/move d. samples, the guy's a friend of mine).

.martin

[charlieb]

from an artist's pov I'll heartily suggest Live, especially since you're in a dynamic environment and not only producing by yourself

I'm not really comfortable with suggesting Reason as addition, but it is the easiest way to create new sounds to use in Live without external gear - well, sampling your soundcard's input is even easier if you want to use external gear. For instance, I usually play my Waldorf Pulse basslines into Live - loops really come to life when recorded live in my opinion. extreme vocal manipulation and basic "clean" vocals work in it too.

OK, so we are getting closer, and perhaps going in the same direction that others have suggested.
To be clear:
1. I want to be able to compose some interesting music, and then have that music on CD and play the CD as part of a workshop. So sort of, "OK, let's begin to relax by listening to some music and loosening up some." and then the music starts.
2. AND, the entire workshop gets recorded and then severely edited as there is always a LOT of wasted space.
So, I do not currently plan on actually "Performing" any music I create on the spot, just popping in various CD's. Paying full attention to the people is already a full time task.
3. And yes there could be times as I do now where I would fade one of MY songs into something by someone else, but again, I would prepare this ahead of time, so as to not get lost in the equipment.
4. I would do prepared CD's that I would sell, where my voice is added to some music tracks to create hypnotic suggestions. But again, not live.
5. I do do a fair amount of hopefully interesting talking while music is playing in my workshops, but this is just getting picked up by a mike that is picking up the entire room.

Sorry, but "Sampling your sound card" is something I do not understand
at all.

Reason seems to be the synth that most people have suggested, and even though you have reservations, this seems to be your suggestion as well yes?
Interesting that you say that Logic is best from a producers point of view, but perhaps Live is best from an artistic point of view. Very interesting difference.

Yes I have tried the Live demo some and it seems pretty accessible. Again, a shame that there isn't any Logic demo. I live in Japan, and I might try to find a place that might have a demo.

Again, thanks for sticking with me.

Regards,
charlie