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440 Forums _ Digital _ Virus B / C / Ti Sound Comparison ?

Écrit par : superlead sam. 11 mars 2006, 21:53

hi,

i had a VIRUS B i had to sell in the past but i'd like to buy another VIRUS.

did someone compare the VIRUS B / C and TI sounds ?

is one sounding better than the 2 others or is it the "same" sound in the 3 (except the wave tables and minimoog type filter ) ?

was there already a difference in tone between B and C ?

did someone try the new VIRUS TI wavetables ?

could it "compete" with a PROPHET VS (i think i read it was a wavetable synth but i'm not sure, though i know it's well known for its pads tones and ambiences) ?

Écrit par : lepetitmartien dim. 12 mars 2006, 02:50

As far as I remember, the main difference was in the interface ans specs, not the sound. I can't tell for the Ti though.

About the Prophet VS, well, it had a real analogue filter… but I'd personally stay clear of it save if you can assume in case it has a problem.

Right now, the contender is more the Dave Smith PolyEvolver/Evolver family. The guy behind the VS… But I can't give you an enlighten advice… having not met the Ti.

Check the Alesis ION/micron too: they rock (and I'm not a VA fanatic, on the contrary), now Access is among the best around in the VA.

Écrit par : mortalengines lun. 13 mars 2006, 00:00

While we're talking about analog modeled synths, I was dinking around with a couple of different synths (the nord leads, alesis ion, microkorg) & found the korg MS 2000 analog modeling synth to be the coolest thing since sliced bread (esp for the 750-US dollar - price) - It was set up with patches & presets to get you started for just about ANY type of electronic music & it SMOKED the Nords- the microkorg & the ion were pretty cool too. I really don't need another keyboard but if I did- it would be THAT Korg.

Écrit par : lepetitmartien lun. 13 mars 2006, 00:35

Save MS2000 doesn't sound analogue at all… rather harsh in the highs.Which is a problem for a VA. Now some people like it, like Clavia imposed the Nord sound (I've got a Nord Modular while I'm an analogue fanatic The G2 is awesome (and red btw

I think our friend should go out and twiddle some knobs to see which one sounds the best for him and also which one he find the most ergonomic for him.

I forgot to precise the Evolver have some analogue stuff in, though they don't sound warm as a tropical rain

Écrit par : superlead lun. 13 mars 2006, 02:26

i have tried the korg ms2000 years ago but it's not a big synth, just a nice toy.
in fact, i worked for several years in some shops till 3 years ago ,where we sold synths among many other audio gears , so i tried many yamaha korg,novation, clavia, minimoog voyager, access, warldorf, emu...
i had a virus B , a nord lead 1 (i didn't like at all once i tried analog's), korg ms20 , prophet 5, SEM 2voices oberheim, cmu810 (sh101 desktop),sh101, matrix 6, matrix 1000, roland system 102, OSCAR (midi version) and i still have a minimoog model D, a SEM 2 VOICES oberheim,SH-3 roland, system 100 modular roland, 2x RSF KOBOL EXPANDERS+ expander 2 and sequencer and a micromoog.

i have a friend who was working in the craziest synth repair/midification shop in paris with that guy named angel freddy , in the 90's and i met one of the biggest synth collector in france through them, who had the ARP2500 MODULAR AND THE MOOG 3C MODULAR but never tried them unfortunately.
he also had all those nice studio electronics midimoog and obie rack or prophet rack and many others....

for some times, i was living in a recording stiudio/loft with some guys that are well known in the GOA TRANCE :
COP , AKA children of paradise that was composed with a guy from X DREAM ( one of the most mythical german goa trance bands from the 90's, well known like hallucinogen, TIP, juno reactor,total eclipse, mad made man....) and 3 french guys, they had good synths like microwave, microwave xt, wave (warldorf), sh-5 roland, multimoog, sequential pro one, korg monopoly, prophecy, SEM 4 VOICES...

actualy i'd like to buy a new synth but i hesitate between those virus c or TI and maybe the studio electronics ATC1X but i haven't heard it yet though a good friend and synth lover told me it's a nice one.

but i'm not sure i won't be fed up with the digital sound of the virus in a while but in another hand it's really reliable and has many features as well as a decent sound.

what do you think about the virus TI wavetables ?
is it worth the extra money in itself compared to a virus c ?

Écrit par : superlead lun. 13 mars 2006, 02:31

i heard the polyevolver demo today which isn't bad for some parts but i'm not convinced in the "analog " sound.

i'd like to hear a prophet VS but i'm sure it's warmer.

btw, i couldn't hear the TI yet as i couldn't find one in france but the demos i heard on access website are really cheezy !
the best beeing the one made with hypersaw and /or wavetables but i remember older access demos beeing really cheezy as well but i managed to find some good sounds in the virus b and c despite it's not as warm as the analog beauties i spoke about before

Écrit par : lepetitmartien lun. 13 mars 2006, 04:19

For the Evolver family best is to visit MESI as you're in Paris (note, I worked for them and regularly collaborate with). There's evolver and polyevolver arounds, Marc knows how to use it and you can twiddle as you want to. Beware, he'll go to Frankfurt in 2 weeks.

Evolver and VS use curtis chips (the analogues oscillators, filter) for their analogue part, but not the same one, the evolver is a chip developed at the time for Tom Oberheim he never used in the end and when Dave worked on the first Evolver (with Tom O. -hardware- and Roger Linn -software-) they use the chips as they had this stock around and no use for. Now they have finished the NOS and have made a run of new chips. As the beast is hybrid sometimes it doesn't show at its best when mishandled, but it's a very nice synth especially there's a small keyboard mono version (and the big poly for the diehards).

The trouble with VS as I said is you're up to some troubles if something gets fried.

ATC1X is FAT, up to heart attack. I don't like the interface personally but it's a great synth, fortunately versatile due to its different filters. I don't know if MESI has one right now (got to call them, I'll ask). The front panel as it is keeps the price low. I'd really like something from Studio electronics…

Until Alesis issued the ION/MICRON, access did the best VA around, alesis VA can be more lively. Now i've not been able to make a side by side comparison…

On Clavia, note the sound changed a lot when they moved from crappy 18 bits D/A to 24 bits D/A with the NL3 and all the synths they issued since (like the G2). People started to discovered the modelling was way less harsh they thought. now Clavia sound is Clavia sound, it's not the "best" VA around, you buy it for it's peculiar sound or for one of the best virtual modular system around.

Écrit par : superlead mar. 14 mars 2006, 18:38

hi mr petit martien,

nice to share details about chips from evolver.
too bad it's not the same as the VS but maybe it wouldn't have been enough to sound exactly the same.
the demos of the polyevolver are ok but still a bit digital despite you seem to say it's analog !

i spoke with my friend who's a big synth lover for years and he said the ATCX could be the one for me.

i listened to the demo on the website and it seems to sound better than the virus, more analog !!
maybe it would be good for me as i'm looking for a reliable synth that stays on tune (suddenly my micromoog is becoming red hot with shame !!!!) .
the roland 100m is good for that, the SEM and minimoog model D serial 87xx and RSF KOBOL xpander's are better than the micromoog but not perfect (SEM might be better than the mini and RSF)

my friend seems to say the ATCX is better and more reliable than the omega8 from what he read .
that guy has a SEM 2 VOICES, a oberheim XPANDER, a cmu810 a midimini studio electronics as well as their OBIE RACK version of the SEM, an alesis andromeda (i didn't like it that much nor the moog voyager, both i tested 3 years ago) and an OSCAR (but the one i had worked much better !!! ).

i may buy a midimini by SE but i read they are not the real midimoog (moog in rack ) but later clone copies. i wonder if they sound the same but my friend seems to say yes though i haven't compared.
the old SE1 wasn't that good and had slow envelopes like a juno 106.
maybe the SE1X is better but i think the SE1 had steps in the filter )

that guy i know had a prophet VS but he seems to say the sounds you can make are really limitated to a few ones although they're good.

i wonder if i won't be fed up with the virus digital sound although it has many nice features and a decent sound but it keeps that digital feeling in the high freq especialy when you turn up the filter

Écrit par : superlead mar. 14 mars 2006, 18:42

i can't bear clavia synthesis at least most of it.
too many people were using it in europe in the 90's and the tone is really cold and digital compared to a access, warldorf (real analog !) , novation or alesis.

i think i found cheaper than MESI !

do you know if there is a difference in tone between old ATC1 and actual ATCX ?

is one better ?

Écrit par : lepetitmartien mer. 15 mars 2006, 05:32

On the chips issue, part of the sound comes from their environnement, the Kobol sound a lot better than the other using the same chips (dont remember on the spot, getting old… sigh).

The trouble with the evolver is the hybrid part is not advertised properly in demo. A friend of mine in toulouse just stumbled on it after thinking bad of it for months… It's easy to make strange sounds in the digital part (wavetables) so the demoist tends to overlook the 2 analogue VCOs and the filters. NOW, it's not a FAT synth. and it's not the most unstable (he can't) and lively around.

From what you say, you seem way more interested into some fatness and instability, the organic part of analogue. In VA, look at ION/MICRON. In real analogue, it's the Voyager, Studio electronics and Macbeth your friends.

I've answered elsewhere on the ATC stuff. the only point I can add, ATC can sound more analogue, they ARE analogue!

The SE-1 is a fat bastard (sorry folks), but it's really a Bass synth IMHO from what i've seen/heard. ATC is more versatile. The SE-1 is the Mini of Studio Electronics, don't confuse with Roland and its DCOs, SE-1 have VCOs. i've only heard SE-1x so can't tell on the filter stepping.

Historicaly Studio Electronics did
- MIDImoog
were real Minimoog model D midified and racked
- MIDImini
were Mini recreation in rack form
- SE-1/ATC-1 are the next step

I've never met the Omega8 it's a rare beast so… can't tell.

Envelopes… it's not the speed of enveloppes which makes the sound in fact but the slope shape. You can have the fastest enveloppe in the world (digital that is) it just won't sound fast the right way, they had the problem on the Andromeda wand they added a sloppy mode which makes wonders in moogish sounds. Now in analogue, the fastest envelopes around are in Technosaurus Selector systems (about 3 times faster than minimoogs) but the synth doesn't need them to be analogue up to the tip of its nails (of saurus

I think it's very dangerous you want to find the sound of old gear in new gear, it just can't be done. We don't have the components anymore to build them that way or it'd be just economically a furious thing. So for "old sound" go legacy synths. For analogue, it's nirvana now, there's never been as much companies building them and as much hardware available. but from what you say, I think you should either go in VA to Alesis, but the more obvious given you background (and safest) and the hints of sound you seem to look after, would be to go to Studio Electronics and at least ATC-1x.

Novation are just spitting wave sample synth out, sounding s***e IMHO
I LOVE alesis, even their QS family f… up to program but sounding sweet, their VA ROCK.
Waldorf is dead, and almost no more analogue. The last real monsters were the microwave 1 (analogue filter) and The Wave (a beast). i wasn't crazy at the Q+ (but the analogue filter did really the trick though). The demise of waldorf is really something bad for synthesis.
On clavia, "grow up", get a NM G2 you talk about the Leads and the old ones in fact. Also Clavia has never been running after the Moog fat effect. Analogue is not only that.
You forgot vermona, but it's cold dark analogue, sounding very german/elektro, I like them a lot but it's not for you.

One last you forgot is Macbeth. Ken makes really great synths, he did one of the best mini-like synth around the M3X (only second hand now) and now he builds the M5, a monster über half-modular.

Écrit par : superlead mer. 15 mars 2006, 12:07

yes, i just discovered about the macbeth but it's expensive, for this price, i'd prefer to find a system700 lab if i can find one !
but i'd be curious to hear the macbeth.
i just bought a midimini in NY yesterday on the web, i hope it will sound as good as my mini D.

so, i might buy the atcx as well, unless i go for the SEM 2 VOICES that my friend sells (he has the SE obie rack , so...), i have one already but 2 could be cool as well for polyphonic tones.
i have to hear his oberheim xpander cause i don't remember its sound.
i haven't been buying synths for years, so i'm hungry ! lol
i'm also wondering about a multimoog, i love the sounds you can get with buty the one i used was not more stable than my micromoog.
don't get fooled, my synths are not so unstable , except the micromoog that can stay on tune for a few hours.
but i was looking for one that could really be stable and reliable ( and still sold new), so i might go for the ATCX.

i tried the alesis andromeda but didn't like it that much.
i think i tried the vermona , but can't recall it impressed me !

yes, i was talking about the nord lead's not the new but i think they are far better synths outside from what i heard with the nord lead's.

i love big basses (moog, RSF) rock n funky leads (SEM TVS1 !!!! RSF, moog's, korg ms20 and roland system100M or smaller ones like system 101/102, SH5 that i'd love to have or SH101 ,i sold mine but might find another one and TB303 that i never had).
i also like good pads and the virus was ok for that as i didn't need to set the filter really high (with those digital noise )
the sequential pro one is a nice small synth and the prophet 5 is good for leads as well, or sweeps, but the the best for sweeps and noises are the moogs, they're the most organic.

i heard about technosaurus and my friend went in switzerland to listen to them but they are expensive for what they are; i'm not sure they sound as good as the old ones.

Écrit par : lepetitmartien jeu. 16 mars 2006, 01:56

To get the most of the andromeda you have to dive deep… It's a synth to program.

Vermona given your earlier hints is not for you even if it's really great stuff as i said. I was giving the name to cover the field.

Macbeth is HUGE. Yes it's expensive, but no more than the 70's equivalent were at the time, it's real analogue, it's always going to be more expansive than digital and quality has a price too. Ken is building now his second run of 30 instruments, we're talking about handmade stuff here. I'm a little in the conception business of analogue stuff and I can tell you, if manufacturer could build less expensive they would do it. On Macbeth, I'm sure of one thing, it'll BOOMSHACK still in 50 years from now. You could have heard one and meet Ken last october at MESi btw… among other things.

As I said, for a Macbeth M3X, now it's second hand and I'm sure there's some black market on those

Talking about second hand: SH5 are very hard to find, MS20 and system 100m are only cash away, Kobol are as SH5… (sigh), SH101 are easy to find, there's aplenty. Sequential stuff shows from time to time around. Now have a look at the http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.spheremusic.com, it's now, and Peter forest is a very serious guy. i've got my Sygma and some minor stuff from there, my EMU coming from Tim Simenon too It's worth a look and it's as safe as possible.

Technosaurus, wait till Jürg comes back from china the OSHO will be back (octal sub-harmonic oscillator)

But beware of the G.A.S. it's a dangerous syndrome

Écrit par : superlead jeu. 16 mars 2006, 02:55

hi ,
too late, the virus is in me for years now ! lol
yes, the macbeth seems nice.
at first i thought it was just a minimoog modular but it seems bigger than a mini.
yes, i suppose it's good quality, so it's expensive but i hadn't seen it was so big.
THE 2 KOBOL EXPANDERS (+ XPANDER 2 AND PROGRAMER ) AND THE SYSTEM 100M ARE MY MODULAR SYNTHS.

maybe i make a mistake and i don't know the vermona, i recall i tried a small cheap metal polished or chrome synth a few years ago but from what you say it seem to sound better, i'll take a look.

the ATCX is in stand by as i bought the midimini, but i'm looking forward another SEM TVS1 , a multimoog and an oscar.
i am attracted towards those old beauties and they get rarer.
the SH5 and MS20 might be later if i find those 3 first
i saw there are many SEM in the USA (but less expander and matrix 12).
i'm also a guitar gear addict, so it's not easy to choose sometimes but i'm selling a few tube amps and guitars to pay all that.

i still think about the virus for pads but it might be much money just for that as i can make some with all the plug ins i have in my macintosh.
the logic synths are not that bad for digital, the absynth is good for pads, the tc powercore is a cheap cross of a multimoog and sh101 but can make a few sounds.
the prophet and DX7 are not too bad neither but i was not a fan of the MS20 nor the oscar (the real one has a freally great filter that they didn't emulate, especialy the sort of divider on it)

are the new technosaurus made in china ?

do you know what parts precisely (chips or other things like that ) i should try to look for spare for my kobol xpander's ?
i'd like to begin to hunt for that if ever something has to break down : i love them so much; it's our french pride !

also i'd like to stabilise my micromoog oscilator, i wonder if the multimoog are more stable ?

Écrit par : superlead jeu. 16 mars 2006, 02:57

do you know this software metasynth ?
it's the best soft for sound design !

Écrit par : superlead ven. 24 mars 2006, 03:24

my midimini has the minimoog boards 1 , 3 and 4 like a midimoog.
i asked several people including SE that said those midimoog and midimini were the same.
some later midimini's had cloned parts.

do you know where i could get some infos to fix a kobol expander osc pitch ?

or where i could bring some vintage synths for service in France (mostly for osc pitch stability) ?

i missed a nice multimoog and a 700 lab roland recently as well as some oscar's and ms20's but i saw a nice SH-5.

Écrit par : lepetitmartien dim. 26 mars 2006, 16:04

first, to repeat myself, i cited Vermona for it to be around, but I don't think it's the sound you're after. It's not "big". You lean over the "american" analogue sound and the japanese.

Technosaurus will not be made in china at all, Jürg happen to work there for a year, he has a wife and kids you know, and they have to eat sometimes He should be back by the end of the year, lucky us The small last run of microcon available thru Schneidersbüro in Berlin are all original parts from Jürg but assembled in Berlin with Jürg's supervision. but it was a small series so maybe there's no more of them.

For the kobol, (you should have told it in the French thread) you could ask the guy in the south who launched a year or two back a big definitive website about RSF. http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rsf.synth.official/ Maybe he can help you out. As for the chips.

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