Mac V's Pc Options

I have been using a PC P3 800mhz with cubase SL and I am thinking about making the move to a Mac running logic.
I do not know much about the comparisons in the hardware but is this a better way to go than a new PC

Any thoughts would be helpful

[digitalboy]

Mac rulez

[lepetitmartien]

[MODERATION MODE]
NO RELIGIOUS BATTLE PLEASE, NO MAC/PC FIGHT, LASER IS IN FUNCTION!!!!!
[/MODERATION MODE]

Right now compared to a G4, a top end PC will give you more tracks/plug ins and XP is plain stable and polished. Now you like Windoz or not.

To compare with G5 is still under controversy. But G5 mono 1,8 are equivalent to a G4 Bi 1,25 (Source)

The first test from our Active Member Celmo (pro user, in the French forums) show that the Bi 2,2 is a bomb and most of the software and hardware compatible works top notch (cubase is way better than before) (Thread in French here)

Still no caccounting of number of tracks/plug ins as max load available… But maybe someone can do the test

Upon the OSX: Pros are starting really to use it for a few weeks now in 10.2.x (at least we have some here and we can give names , Pa,ther seems to go for the better. As a veteran Mac power User (still in 9.04 myself because I'm on a BW G3 400) the 10.2.7 on G5 at Apple Expo Paris in September was the first time PSX made me really itch, user experience almost without pain (it's sometimes difficult for long term mac user to go OSX). It's slick, and starting to be really polished. I've had way more facilities than I have when i'm going at a friend's who is on PCs and XP, wich is still a pain in the A… for me.

To be short: I can't tell you which is the most powerfull now but I'm way convinced of the easiest to deal with

About Logic Vs something… Did you named a second sequencer? I'm not sure

Have a good reading anyway as some points on the Cubase/logic controversy are already there.

Thanks for the info
I meant Logic V's cubase SL

[dixiechicken]

For sequencers/daw:s - dont forget Digital Performer 4.1, Protools, Ableton Live.

Prefer DP 4.1 myself very slick & intuitive, runs on a Protools hardware rig - if you got one. (hehe)

For cheapo daw:s Metro 6.0 from Sagantech seems to be very well thought of.

Cheers: Dixiechicken

[Synthetic]

here's the biggest issue these days in Mac Vs PC since PC's are now more stable and easier to use....

STILL.... for everyone 1 virus on a Mac... there are about 10 for PC's and how many times do you see headlines in news that claim MS found another security hole in their software and require users to d/l and use a patch? The Mac has had these problems too but not nearly as much I personally try to stay away from MS products as much as possible because they are the most hacked and attacked software available. Popularity comes at a price they say:rolleyes:

I love sitting here at work reading emails about potential new virus or worm attacks... I just laugh because they "almost" never affect my Mac

[boze]

i think the virus comment would be better coming from someone who used a pc and thought it had a negative effect than from someone who doesn't have first hand experience with keeping a windoze box virus free. it's true that folks don't bother writing virus's for osx, but it's not like running windoze amounts to some super high risk or anything. you could just as easily have deleted your home directory in osx as get hacked through some m$ security hole. osx comes out with 10.2.8 and suddenly folks can't use ethernet connections and the update gets recalled. that sounds like a windoze story but it's not.

anyway- no offense, i tend to be too wordy about this stuff.

macs and PCs are both great. osx is just about grown up starting tomorrow with panther and xp is solid as well. the worst is over as far as waiting for plugins and instruments to be released for osx, but xp has everything running for it already since it didn't spend the past three years rewriting dos or whatever (who knows if longhorn will do to pc plugins what osx did to mac plugins?).

if you're looking for a laptop, the iBooks just got way more attractive for audio ppl. check the applestore for details- they all have G4s now.

generally speaking, if you have any sort of budget you can get a quality pc and still have more money left over for the other gear that goes into home recording than if you bought a G4 or G5 desktop. also, G5s aren't the best value right now unless you can afford the dual processor one for $3000us. it's better to buy a mac desktop when the sweetspot for value isn't the top of the line. like when the G4s first went over so they were all dualprocessor and suddenly the 867 was a dual867 for the same price.

sorry this is so stream-of-consciousness. i just got back from a bikeride and it was cold and i'm feeling sort of funny.

good luck!

Ce message a été modifié par boze - ven. 24 oct. 2003, 01:26.

[Popmann]

i think the virus comment would be better coming from someone who used a pc and thought it had a negative effect than from someone who doesn't have first hand experience with keeping a windoze box virus free.

I work in a corporate environment where 4 or 5 people's full time job has been taming the latest worm ut break. That's a LOT of time and money. Not to mention user productivity lost.

But, at home, no-I've never had down time because of a virus. Because of Windows? Yes. Virus? No.

[arne_e]

if you have any sort of budget you can get a quality pc and still have more money left over for the other gear

As an educator, and long time Macaddict, I'd have to reluctantly agree. I've heard it too many times from students who scrap together the money to buy a decent Mac, and then are shocked at the cost of software.

I'd say go with whatever platform the smartest person around you has. He/She might be the one helping you in the end.

[Popmann]

mmm...I would question that logic.

What software is more expensive on the Mac? Premium software is always equivalent. The PC just offers cheap lesser quality software.

The (desktop) computers in the Apple world are more expensive for the processing power. But, peripheral hardware (audio/midi/drives/RAM) are not really. Premium software is not really.

Now, if what you mean is instead of paying $3k for a new G5 if your entire budget is $3k, one should pay $1500 for a PC and the other $1500 on software, I'd agree. Except that depending on what you're doing with it, you could easily buy a $1500 Mac and have the same software-albeit with a hit in expandability and CPU power. And other than certain types of apps, the slowest CPU you can buy on either platform will be more than enough.

I'm in the opposite scenario. I love Logic and Nuendo. Version 2 of Nuendo is killer. While it will run on a cheaper computer (PC)...it's $1200 where Logic (Mac only) is $700. And less if you get the very capable Gold version($500).

I'm well versed in both MacOSclassic and Win98/me/2k/XP...in fact I support Windows for a living.

So, if not Nuendo, what PC app would I use? Sonar? POS. Samplitude? No MIDI. Cubase? Maybe, if they get the MIDI timing worked out.

Whereas, I buy the Mac...I have my choice of Digital Performer, Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, or ProTools(if I buy their HW).

Office? Got it...but, if I didn't, Appleworks does a good job, too.

i say you pick your platform based on the software you want to use--it should be budgeted first. Too, many people make the mistake of saving for an uber computer (on either side) then using cheap, buggy, less capable software due to running out of $$.

Software allows you to work. Hardware just runs-or doesn't. The OS binds the two.

Digidesign didn't implement any kind of plug in copy protection into their TDM hardware-bootleg plug ins make their platform seem cheaper, so they'll turn the other cheek. Bill Gates does the same. With a evening of broadband surfing, you can pull any piece of PC software you might need. That doesn't make it legitimately cheaper.

[Synthetic]

BOZE.... no offense man but where does it say I never had a PC not to mention when I say Macs.... I am not just talking about OSX... I will assume like you did... that you only know OSX and never worked on older Macs with OS9 because it seems to have escaped your ranting and raving criticism. Is that fair?

let's quit "assuming" we "know" people on this board and address the issure not the people talking about it

this forum lately has gotten very personable for no reason than others wanting to attack other's opinions and views rather than actaully "discuss" topics If this continues... I am off to find better pastures to graze with less BS to step in.

[boze]

oh goodness...
::: folks who are on topic can skip this post as it doesn't relate to the posters original question :::

synthetic- it sounds like you took a bit of offense there, partner.

i'd appreciate it if you could refrain from personal attacks and criticisms. imagine that my comment was voiced in a softer tone, okay? please don't describe me with terms like 'ranting', 'raving' and 'bs'- that's not appropriate and it's not the kind of discussion forum you yourself want. casting doubt on my experience is similarly unnecessary- i've been using macs for audio since os8 but that doesn't relate to this thread. i spoke specifically to osx in my earlier comment because (although i know that lots of folks are still making entire careers in os9) i think it's too much to expect a new buyer to be expected to run anything other than osx for audio if he/she decides to purchase a new mac.

i'm not trying to suggest that you don't have meaningful advice. your first comment just sounded speculative since you didn't mention any specific or general experiences of any PCs in your life getting taken out by virus's. i was suggesting that speculative advice was less useful than experience and that a fear of virus's was kind of a vague thing to factor into a platform decision this early in the game for a newbie. i'm not dissing you or trying to disparage you as person- just saying that the 'no virus's' argument is pretty tangential imo. i meant no offense as i said immediately after that comment in my post. there were no personal attacks either before or after that comment and none were intended. everybody value's your contributions to this board, synthetic. lets keep it that way

[Synthetic]

Boze... "ranting and raving" is not a "personal attack"... its a description of one's dialog whether in forum or person to person. Now as for the speculation with your experience.... I guess you didn't catch my sarcasm as it was simply made as a comparison to the statements made about my lack of work on a PC... see, you assumed because i didn't list my life's resume of computer experience that I was not familiar with PC's. So, I assumed you were not OS9 experienced because you only mentioned OSX.... sure its not relevant but it makes a point. "People should not assume they know everything about a person from a little post on a forum."

So yes i was a bit offended by your judgemntal view of my post just because I didn't list the fact that I had operated a college computer lab for 2 years with about 30 macs and 20 PC's plus I take care of my grandfather's Dell. Not to mention i had old 486 that I was happy to get rid off. So rather than dispute my claims because I am supposedly "someone who doesn't have first hand experience with keeping a windoze box virus free"... (gee this sounds more like a personal attack than "ranting" & "raving") why not just state your opinion and assume you know nothing about the person whom you disagrree with. THIS IS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE. YOU ASSUMED and made a judgement which was wrong. Maybe it seems to you like I over-reacted but... you should really look at it both ways as if maybe I said something about your lack of experience on the mac didn't warrant your opinions you stated. But... because I don't know you or abour your experience... I would not do this. Make sense?

Boze, I am not saying you are a bad guy (I don't know you so I will not jjudge or assume) but I wouldn't attack your advice based on what I DIDN't KNOW about you. I just felt that your comment about my lack of PC experience was uncalled for. And as for the "BS"... that wasn't a "personal attack" either... that is just what I thought of being judged, As professional as the team likes to keep this site... I don't think 2 letters are gonna sour this forum anymore than judging people. I mean come-on... it was directed at no one because again... it what used TO DESCRIBE MY OPINION of the situation. I have seen this in other posts too (not just by one person).

So with that being said... no hard feelings but I do hope you will think next time before casting off judgement about one's experience, life, or knowledge based on what they DON'T tell you And for the anyone not involved in this... sorry for all the crap but felt something needed to be said

we are all here to help and get help... just as some may think its not productive to squalbble and bicker... I say its not productive judging other's credibility without all the facts. I'm done... let's move on just as life does everyday

[boze]

wow- what a post. i don't know what to say! i think i understand now how 'ranting, raving, bullsh!t' is not really a personal attack. that was just a description! you were _helping me! trying to teach me!! it seemed to me that you had over-reacted, but at the heart of the matter was this: based on an unqualified assumption i made a judgement: that was my mistake! i assumed that you didn't really have a lifetime of experience which _proved that virus's are the ballance of power in the Mac Vs. PC debate today!

worse, withouth thinking (which i'll surely do next time!) i cast off a judgement and attacked the advice of an experienced and helpful member of the forum. understandably you were a bit offended- but you took the time to clarify your point so we could be spared of further bickering. now i realize it was my ignorance of your holistic experience and my failure to catch your sarcasm that led me to make assumptions and judge your credibility without all the facts.

i vow to never again assume i know everything about someone from a mere forum post.

thank you for not judging me or attacking my advice, synthetic. by your example i am learning how to contribute in a meaningful way toward the edification of the macmusic.org membership.

[Synthetic]

Boze... now I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not

either way... no biggie and please don't think of it as I was trying to teach you anything... I just wanted to clarify what I was upset about and even though it seemed like I was "fueding mad" over it... it wasn't that big of a deal but you know how some things in communication get lost when not seeing the person you are chatting with (facial expressions etc.) so I try to explain things as best as possible and I type 70-100 words a minute depending on my mood so that is reason for the length... also that was from home... I usually leave smaller posts when at work due to time thus reason for not mentioning my experience in my first post on this topic

Anyways... let's just say we are understood and no bitter feelings or anything... cool ?

[Synthetic]

ohh... and just to add to the actual topic... when I was working our computer labs... viruses were more of a problem on the PC's than Macs. I only remember dealing with a couple viruses on the 30 macs we had but there was a time when about half of the PC machines were down and sometimes at once. People were bringing 95% of them on floppies from home. Some had installed hacked games and some had just not even known their computer at home was infected and brought in files that that carried the viruses. We used Norton Antivirus eventually and kept them updated... problems went down but there were always a few that Norton didn't catch.

I work at a newspaper... so i read paper daily and MS is constantly in headlines about a new security hole in Windows or another software app they make or about a new worm or virus that attacks Outlook Express or Office and such. I still can only recall once reading about this with Apple OS's maybe twice but once for sure.


And my last reason I own a Mac over a PC is the adding on and upgrading issues. Everything I buy for my mac works with just plug and play and maybe driver installation... no biggie. I have delt with buying "cheaper" drives, modems, and such for PC's only find out they require a computer science graduate to make work with other manufacturer products. I tried to add a 36.6 modem in place of a 14.4 and could never get sound to work right with new modem... had to got back to 14.4 to make it work again. Recently, a friend with a Gateway was ranting and raving about this new CD burner he got for his computer for like $25 new at BestBuy... had it for 2 months and never got it to work right with computer.

This brings to the point of the cost issue. Sometimes you get what you pay for (not always and yes you can find bargains). If you are going to compare an Apple to a PC in price.... at least compare it to a IBM model and not a clone like Dell etc. IBM uses good quality components just as Apple does and actually... their prices are not that much different only maybe just a bit more speedy cpu's now.

Software is same way... there are TONS more software for PC's yes... most of it not worth bothering with unless you are into games... meanwhile the most all the major music apps cost same when made for both systems unless a store is overstocked and has a sale on one cpu version. Most any good app that comes out on the PC is eventually ported to the mac as well.

Ce message a été modifié par Synthetic - sam. 25 oct. 2003, 01:46.

[lepetitmartien]

Worth to know on this thread:

CODE

We're supposed to talk about Logic/Cubase and the advantages to be using logic on X over cubase on PC/macs

I'm sure our friend here knows certainly much more on viruses than we do, but viruses are definetly not musical things.

Can we KEEP to the MUSICAL aspect of things? please

(you can't go to IRCAM, Paris following a day on free Linux musical software without a religious discussion on angel gender arising in the EN forums

[lepetitmartien]

Advantages of logic

- tightness
- midi total control
- completly customisable to user needs (The Environement alpha and omega in Logic, a bit violent to learn but way far into supreme power extravaganza)

Abd yes (when the thread was still on its head) DP is a good choice too. deep enough, maybe more for the people who don't want to delve into the environement. tightness wise as tight as Logic so it's tight.

Sorry if I started something off here with my initial post.

Anyway thanks all for the advice

[vahtryn]

I would like to just make a few things known on the mac vs pc debate. It's much like the Linux vs *BSD debate us unix admins tend to get in on the subject of free operating systems.

They're equally as good, equal in faults and when you get down to the nitty gritty it's all about how you have your machine configured.

As for the security aspect of windows vs mac there really is one thing going for Mac. The general populous does not use it as much as windows. When you have something that pretty much everybody and their grandmother uses that's where the kiddies are going to attack.

Simple things can keep you from getting viruses and exploited. Grisoft offers a free A/V that's great. Keeps everything off as long as you keep it on auto update.

Microsoft in it's later releases (2k and XP) you can have autoupdate turned on. Unless you're running a server where certain service packs can break applications this is a great thing to turn on. Keeps your machine up to date.

Just doing those two simple things will keep your machine from getting hacked for the most part. Just because you have a Mac does not mean that you are more secure, just means less people are trying to release things that affect you.

-maz

[Lusamar]

MAC is Nice, PC is Nice, Windows is bad!