Is Protools Hd Worth The Money?, upgrading, waiting or simply switching? Options

[xfiles]

Dear macmusicians.
As a long time reader, i would first like to thank all the macmusic staff for their great and profitable work.

As a professional producer and songwriter, i've been using Digidesign products since their very beginning (my first digi was a SoundTools). I'm familiar with the idea of upgrading computer based solutions as the technology permanently evolves but I expect to get something out of it.

Therefore I am VERY disapointed with Digidesign's attitude towards their customers. It seems to be nowadays a generality for manufacturers (including Apple) to sell promises instead of true improvements as well as treating their customers of "walking wallets"...

I was planning to invest in a new Protools HD, for our main room, but the closer I look at it, the more i get the feeling that it is a very uncleaver choice. I really wonder if it's worth the money.

The truth is that nothing is EVER compatible between Digidesign products. The only solution for my studio to be up to date is:

1- Change ALL my digidesign hardware. This means upgrading for a very expensive price, all my processing cards (mix cube and 2 mix farms that i have bought only 10 month ago).

2- Throw out my 4 TDM SampleCell cards (knowing that there is nothing to replace them exept Soft-SampleCell which will never give me the 64 stereo voices needed for emulating symphonics with Miroslav collection for exemple). What an improvment...

3- I will also have to change my brand new USD as well as my three 888 interfaces. (I know I can use them if I buy 3 new Digi interfaces just to connect my old ones). Wow !!! Great deal !!!

4- Most plug-ins (ie TC) are still NOT compatible with HD systems... Anyway, I know I'll have to PAY expensive updates JUST to stay compatible. Who cares, i'm rich!?

5- Major sequencers including my favorite (Logic Audio) don't currently support ProTools HD.
I guess i will have to do with the ridiculous MIDI features of PT 5.

6- I was expecting Digidesign (the big leader) to announce an OS X version of their softwares but they simply let their competitors do it... Knowing (as Steeve Jobs announced it) that the new Mac product line will only support OS X by January, How much $$$ will I have to spend again to upgrade my henceforth costly Digi set up (Plugs and why not hardware again?)

7- BTW Thanks for strongly advising me to buy a very expensive Geronimo 2000 video card that will never be supported by OS X according to Appian themselves.

8- I've heard of big problems with the new Digidesign sync interface.

9- Best of all, I have been told that Digidesign may change their approach and favorise their development on PC's. I guess I will just have to upgrade again...

10- Does anyone at Digidesign care about their customers desesperatly waiting for a simple and efficient way to "direct connect" the growing collection of the amazing VST instruments.

All theses points lead me to reconsider my next investments. Considering it is nowaday easy to find mix farms at an affordable price and that ProTools mix systems are rock solid, I would suggest any "Digidesign shareholder" to wait and see...

Meanwhile I will certainly buy a new G4 just to experiment alternative solutions. The main problems with theses new compititors is that they are good looking, they offer great possibilities, they support many popular standarts and are a hell of a lot cheaper.


Cheers,

[damann]

i should mention that upgrading to "hd" isn't anywhere near as expensive as you might think it is.
i should also mention the fact that i let my pro-tools rig "fizzle out" and have never been happier!
digidesign are a bunch of stnuc! their software sucks, give me the porsche anyday.
i don't chase tail anymore, let them chase ours!
i work in the top studios in london on a regular basis, have done for years, dodgydesign just make the most expensive "multitracking" solution "conceivable", what exactly is that worth?
if you work in film, i understand that 192k is potentially necassary, but as far as the music "biz" is concerned, 44.1/48 and some groovy plugs sihts on "fidelity".
garbage in/garbage out shall be the whole of the law...

[Synthetik]

My two cents,
The only reason I would upgrade from a TDM system to a HD is the 192khz, but with me I use 96khz but could do fine with 44.1, so is your HZ importent to you?

[Stuartpa]

I have to agree that Digi is definitely in for the money, but then is DP free?? or LOgic for that Matter.

I love the PTHD setup it is fantastic, waiting for everyone to get their software compatible has beena bit of a pain but in the final analysis until you have a CPU that runs at 12 Ghz you can't touch Pro Tools HD for audio quality. ALso now that Logic supports PTHD and DP 3.2 will also support it, if you can afford it go for it.

I have been in the "Computer Audio" business since before there was such a thing as a sequencer nad have followed all the so called progress htat has been made and No One is ever happy with new stuff I think because they feel they can't compete.

If you are any good you can compete on an Atari. It's not the gear that makes the Music it's the Musician. Buy what YOU like not what someone else thinks and study what you are getting into before you buy. Then if you have the time afterwards to complain about everything, well what can I say. Gotta split soundiver just finished working at long last.

[damann]

hi stuartpa!
here at macmusic everybody does what they do for free.
digi don't do anything for free!
protools free is so limited in functionality that digi are confident that once they have you hooked on it, you'll develope a burning desire to give them money for a more functional version.
at which point, you're on the "ladder" that ultimately means you'll pass a few grand their way.
emagic for one, have tried this approach a few times. i think you'll find that digi are the only people out there that stand to make as much money from their outlandishly priced upgrades as they do, for this to be viable.
you don't actually get "something for nothing" in this world.
digi software sucks in comparison. all the regular pt users will hate me for saying this, but in the meantime, on a professional basis, i have to use this software to earn money. it 'aint pretty!
i've also been in this industry since before sequencers were invented. yes, an atari, mpc, or whatever, can compete with any of this sophisticated stuff. it's really about what YOU do with it.
please don't believe that protools is "ultimately" free!
i'd rather try some demos of software that openly wants my money if i decide i like it, than follow this phoney route.

end of rant...

[Stuartpa]

How the hell do you live if you everything for free.

I do have to agree with you on the subject of Digi, when yo uthink of who is really behind them it is a bit scary (DIGI owned by Avid owned by ****oft owned by UNOHU the biggest money grabber of all and probably one of the prime reasons we are not further ahead today than we are.

Yu[ Iuse DIGI hardware but I use Logic and will be using Performer as soon as they are compatible. Most of the Plugins and add ons are not DIGI just a couple and I would hate to be stuck using Pro Tools for composition, thank you Logic for saving my Butt there.

But to answer the original question I still think that Pro Tools HD is the way to go. Maybe when I get the new Dual 1.2Ghz Mac in I may change my mind but I will wait for that one.

As for the Rant, you should hear me whenver DIGI sends me something that is not HD compatible and I have to wait another 3 weeks for them to sort the **** out. There is no way I am paying $2000 or more for their Tech support. I have talked with some of the guys from the original DIGI they were good guys then, but they said they quit because DIGI was getting too corporate. SO mate Rant away its nice to hear an opinion once in a while

[damann]

cheers dude!
i know some stuff about the m1#r0$0ft connection that'll make your hair curl.
if you use rocket for instance, whose servers do you think your music ends up living on?
be afraid...

[Stuartpa]

HI Dman, so Rocket is yet another method used to screw us that is enlightening. You know the KGB and the Gestapo had nothing on BG he is like a ******* leech on the society.

He has his fingers in every pie nad he has stopped so much stuff that would have been really far out had the companies been left alone.

I mean in the early days DIGI was great and they realy were forward looking. Can you imagine where they would be now if thye had managed to stay out of the **oft trap.

I know one thing for sure as far s I possibly can I will leave no creative data on any site held by those folks, I am sure if they like it you will lose it somehow and they just gotta be keeping an ear to the ground or the server becasue if it is original it might make them even more Money.

I like to get paid for what I do but I am not that greedy. I have to admit that posting my message in this forum was well worth it and thanks for the info it is appreciated.

All theses points lead me to reconsider my next investments. Considering it is nowaday easy to find mix farms at an affordable price and that ProTools mix systems are rock solid, I would suggest any "Digidesign shareholder" to wait and see...

Meanwhile I will certainly buy a new G4 just to experiment alternative solutions. The main problems with theses new compititors is that they are good looking, they offer great possibilities, they support many popular standarts and are a hell of a lot cheaper.

hi xfiles

Thanx for your wise suggestion. I was ready to buy a PT hd till i read your post. I did find a TDM core syst at an incredible price and then found 2 very cheap mixfarms. It was a such great deal that i am now planning on buying an brand new G4

My next step... Logic audio 5 for pro midi and great VSTI

Thanx a lot for your precious help

Steeve
From NY

[III777III]

EVERYONE that has been reading this post, would you guys agree that digi has allways kept there products in the POST demain?

i mean, first you get the automation, then 24bit, then 192 then?
there prices have allways kept there poducts out of reach from music end users and into the BIG rooms that charge the BIG bucks.

i gather there market targets are the money making studios and 75%+ of there annual tax expense budget, sounds correct to you guys?

Even in logic 5 i cant seem to get a perfect break on automation , its not as accurate as pro tools at all, there audio editing needs TONS of work to improve logics accuracy, and lots of logic audio is flaky and un reliable, yet emagic has still been the best UP digi's crack!!, no one else comes closer then emagic., even with there own LOGIC CONTROL/PRO CONROL clone that you get complaints too with regarding some faders are not accurate too and have been returned to shops.

But one thing for sure is when i do POST work in a room that has a PTHD system is that it feels the closest to tape ever, and tape has no BIT limit!!!, also Pro Tools is SOLID!!,

So what im getting at is someone has to be the one to PUSH it all to the max, although we have to agree its a buisness and they also push this too far as well.

But i have one thing to say to digi, why dont they make a fully step up system for all levels with pay as you go add on hardware per track, then everyone can benefir and especially digi been able to garantee there customer a REAl upgradable investment, and not a hoax like the last 11 years they pulled off and keep getting away with.

ofcourse we all know this CraP but no one sais anything about it, thought i would again here.

[Teiwaz]

Hi, this is my first posting. I'm a mate of Damann, and I'm based in LA with my studio after leaving the UK.

To begin with, I would like to clarify my political veiwpoint.

I have a PT TDM system using Logic 99% of the time as the front end on a G4. I also have a dual gig G4/VST2 rig with a MOTU 2408, also running Logic. I refuse to touch dodgy's 888 interface (I've heard better top end coming from a glass of coca cola) or how about their new 192 (looks like a piece of crap, what pathetic led metering, if it sounds like it looks, no thanks). I have an Apogee AD-8000 and have come across some very interesting test results comparing Bum Factory's Pultec EQ with the magnificent UAD-1 card's Pultec EQ. I Eq'd a bass on the UAD-1 Pultec plug, then passed the signal through a TDM channel via lightpipe, inserted a Bum Factory Pultec across it, and lo and behold, the 50hz bottom end generated by the UAD-1 Pultec was CANCELLED OUT (my speaker cones stopped moving) when switching the Bum Factory's Pultec out of bypass mode (all controls flat). And just to imagine some greenhorn buying the Bum Factory version (because of their ball & chain PT system) for around the same price that you can buy the UAD-1 PCI card and get all those great plugs bundled free!! One could misconstrue another as being a monkey without a brain to buy into the profools/notools HD "solution". What is all this crap about HD sounding so good anyway?! If you get an Apogee convertor (expensive but worthwhile) you can interface anything to it. The AMBUS cards available are A) ADAT lightpipe B) Firewire - direct connect to your ASIO host) and C) dodgydesign interface (if you so happen to own a TDM/Mix/Mixplus system) and D) DA-88 interface . Beyond that, why bother at all with dodgy? I keep thinking of a large ship in the middle of the atlantic with not enough lifeboats to go around... Children & lazy programmers first! Interestingly enough, dodgy have recently coerced Universal Audio to release their LA-2A, Urei & Pultec plugs on the HD "platform". I see many PT heads migrating to VST2 once they realise they can have the whole shooting match for around the price of one TDM plug-in of the same breed

Just thought I'd share my thoughts with you...