Newbie Needs Advice!, software/hardware setup can't decide Options

[mook noodler]

First of all, Hello! I've been looking around in here for about 3 hours now and I'm really impressed. This is one of the best forums I've been to and seems to be the most helpful. Now that my nose is well browned...

here's my situation: (and I don't mean to repeat other topics but there's so many that I'm overwhelmed!!!) I've been recording music for the past 3 years or so on a PC with Cakewalk and Cakewalk Sonar. I like Sonar, but I got so sick of PCs that I went and got myself a PowerMac dual1.25 G4 with OSX. Now I needs a new setup. I record guitar, bass, vocals, and keyboard and drum machine. I have a Midisport 4x4 for midi, but I'm definitely not a midi whiz. I also have several outboard effects (delay, compression, etc) that I like to use.

At first I leaned toward the Digi 001 cuz of all the I/O's, but this forum has me thinking Logic or Cubase, which leaves me pretty confused about a hardware interface. I don't think I need a mixer type thing (already have a mixer), but I'd like something with several I/O's for sending tracks to outboard effects, and I'd really like a breakout box. I just need basic plug-ins but would like to be able to add more later. Softsynths would be cool too.

Hope I didn't go over the top w/ details. Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated, and I thank you all in advance! PS: my price range is about $1200.

[mook noodler]

By the way, not sure of proper etiquite; there's another topic that's really similar to mine, but it didn't entirely solve my dilemna. Should I have posed my question in that thread, or was it okay to make a new one? I'm a newbie to forums in general.

[lepetitmartien]

You're welcome!
Browse all you want

Now can you get more precise on your question, as I find difficult to understand it (it may be the language barrier…)

Mainly how many I/O you need and of what type? analogue? balanced or not? Spdif?

[mook noodler]

Let's see; as far as I/O's go, I mostly need unbalanced, but a couple xlr mic inputs too. I have a mic pre amp, so that's not a necessity. I'd like (ideally) to have enough inputs to have all or most of my gear plugged in at once (2 for synth, 2 for guit, 1 for bass, 1 for mic), and then still have 2 inputs left for outboard effects returns. For outputs, I need a pair for my monitors and at least two more for effects sends. As for S/PDIF, I don't even know what that is yet, other than some sort of digital I/O.

The way I was doing things on my PC was this: I ran everything into my mixer and my mixer into a crappy Creative Labs sound card. But what I want now is to be able to simultaneously record separate instruments to separate tracks.

Hope this clarifies more! Thanks!

[PlasTree]

I own a MOTU 828 and have been very pleased with it's quality and reliability. Plus it's semi-portable, which can come in handy. It will work with just about any DAW program, except for Protools, of course. It has 8 analog ins and outs (2 xlr, 6 unbalanced phono), plus 8 channels in/out of ADAT and 2 of SPDIF. It's 24/48k, so if you want to record up to 96k, you could get the MOTU 896, which is a bit more expensive. The 828 can be had for $700 nowadays.

I wouldn't recommend the Digi 001, unless you want to use Protools (not a bad move at all). The 001 has inferior dynamic range compared to other products in its price range. It does, however, come with the daw software. I know you can use Digital Performer and Logic with the 001, but there's little point in getting the 001 just for the hardware. Technical stuff aside though, my studio collaborator owns a 001- we've never had any problems with it, and the sound quality is just fine.

Aside from those offerings, Presonus just came out with the Firestation, which has very similar specs to the 828. I have a friend with a Presonus Digimax preamp, and it's really good for the money. I don't have any experience with the Firestation, however.

Those are the products that I know of off the top of my head, although I'm sure there are others in that price range. Do a LOT of research before you buy! It's always worth it.

[PlasTree]

Important note: Neither the Digi 001 nor the Firestation have osX drivers yet.

[mook noodler]

Thanks PlasTree! I've been looking into your suggestions and they both look really good (except like you said, Firestation won't work with OSX yet and they make no indication of when it will).

Any recommendations for software? Logic or Cubase?

Thanks again!

[PlasTree]

Hehe. I'm probably going against the grain here. Seems a majority of users on this forum are Logicheads. I don't use Logic or Cubase. I wouldn't recommend Cubase because it is buggy and amateurish. Logic has the goods, but I don't care for it's interface. It's very non-standard and hard on my eyes. But that's subjective, I guess.

I use Protools and Digital Performer. I actually use DP more often because it's more flexible in terms of hardware support and I like it's interface a little better. But honestly, DP is mostly a copy of Protools with just a few major differences. That's by no means a bad thing, as Protools is the standard, and a good one at that.

I strongly encourage you to give Digital Performer a review along with the other DAW's. An osX version is not out just yet, but is slated for a March release (although I'm not holding my breath). If you must use Logic, I guess you're in good hands, as most of the posters here seem pleased with their software. I personally will never be caught dead using it unless it receives a major interface overhaul.

Good luck in your future making music on a Mac! You got the most important part right, anyway!

[mook noodler]

Thanks again PlasTree. I wonder if you (or anyone else) could tell me about the differences between Logic and ProTools or DP? I've downloaded a trial version of Cubase, but can't find one for Logic, and ProTools FREE doesn't work in OSX. What don't you like about the Logic interface?

I was using Cakewalk Sonar and liked the setup (probably because it's all I knew). Is Logic or PT or DP similar?

[manexmachina]

If you're interested mostly in audio editing the stuff you've recorded, consider protools very seriously.

As far as Logic or Cubase or DP. This is what I've found for myself and what I've found from research with other people who know the apps much better than I.

Logic - Logic is the end all tool - but I find that the peple who like it often are people who are nuts about the details and like or must work with the nitty gritty to customize something for their own studio or someone elses. It is more limitless, but with that comes a much reduced ease of use. It tends to be a tool for the people who really like tools. If I were a studio midi-tech, I'd be a logic fanatic.

Cubase - With the SX version, the interface no longer bothers me and I think the making of music in it to be much more simple compared to logic. I think they rush out the product at the expense of the details sometimes and being rough on the edges - but it's not the tool for the midi-tech God... The personality of the people who use it tend to be the garage musician - but the people who get a lot done too. Now, I was a ProTools user early on (version 1) and the attitude back then ("Screw all the big expensive equipment, we'll do it cheap!") is now the attitude of the cubase/nuendo users and no longer that of protools which has become the establishment, not the rebels.

DP - Very Mac. The interface is beautiful, but despite having a reputation for being protools like, I find cubase a lot more protools like mostly because DP has so many multiple windows. Now, the users of DP tend to be true musicians (not djs or midi techs) - Ironically, it has the least implemented score features. I'm not sure if the musicians like the pretty interface or the midi tools or the ease of use. I'm not sure I'd gamble on DP as being the most likely to be a surviving program in 5 years either. (Though you could argue that about any of these programs.) You rarely hear about people hating DP or frustrated with it - unless you're talkinga bout their slow upgrade process and taking a few versions to get it right. They have the new Mach5 which is very exciting - but that will work with any sequencer. They are rumored to have the best built in effects. But they're also rumored to have the most latency issues.

So, that's my collective impression of the different applications. I'd love to hear any further opinions. (No need to flame, just state your case - this is all in the name of research.)

For me? If I were choosing one platform? I think I'd probably go Cubase/Nuendo... but I still might change my mind and go DP... Logic I tried to warm up to, because I know it is probably the best program on many levels... but it just takes too much time to make things happen. Apple may change this and I may switch then... but for now, I want to make some music happen, not some programming. why not protools eventhough I'm an expert in that already? I'm too tired of upgrading every 2 years... nubus system 1 to nubus system 2 to pci 1 to pci version 2 etc... and it's always so expensive, I think Steinberg is doing what digidesign was doing in the early 90s. (BTW, digidesign was really unstable back then compared to now... the nature of a cheaper system.)

hope this helps.