Hello,

I have a question for all of the professional audio buffs that hang around here.

On my not-so-spare time, I build and run the web site at http://www.coptichymns.net/ , which is dedicated to the digitization and preservation of rare hymns of the ancient Coptic Orthodox Church (talk about niche market, huh).

Anyway, I currently encode all of my audio in RealAudio format via RealProducer Basic. I have a USB iMic connected to my DP G4, which, in turn, is connected to my stereo's headphone check. This is an extremely simple setup, I know.

I would like to begin doing more "hardcore" digitizing. My major concern at this point is that cable going from the stereo's headphone jack to the iMic. I think I would get better performance and quality from an RCA cable instead, right? Unfortunately, my stereo doesn't have that jack, so I guess I need to buy a completely new tape deck to play these ancient tapes and get the best possible quality for further optimization.

Now that you have my story, can anyone suggest a good quality tape deck that works well with Macs? Any other suggestions as to how I can make this endeavor more productive?

Thanks so much in advance.

you said it!
the headphone output of your amp will never provide the best results.
your whole approach is, to be honest, pretty lo-fi anyhow.
i can't imagine a hifi without rca outputs for the individual components (well, i guess i can!), a new amp at least, seems necassary here...
i hope you don't consider my reply to be cynical. anything i can do to help, feel free to ask.

No, no, I don't think you're cynical at all. You're the pro, I'm the amateur, so I don't mind listening to criticism at all.

Here's what I have so far:

(1) Dual-processor G4 1GHz with 1.5 GB RAM and 120 GB hard drive.
(2) iMic connected to USB
(3) OS X 10.2; OS 9.2.2
(4) Toast Titanium 5.1.4
(5) CD Spin Doctor (supposedly can separate tracks for me)
(6) Audion X 3.02 (can record from the iMic and optimize)

Here's what I want to do:

(1) Insert an old tape (with all of those audio imperfections), play it, and record the best possible sound file to the computer.
(2) Digitize and optimize that file to create the best clarity.
(3) Using the optimized file, send it through RealProducer.

The question is:

What do I need? Just tell me whatever you think I should have, and trust me, I will buy it. I'm a law student that is pretty proficient when it comes to doing things in OS X, but when it comes to this hardcore stuff, I'm a total newbie.

I was hoping someone would have experience with certain tape decks, or even know of one that hooks up directly to USB and can be controlled from the computer.

Thanks for any help.

o.k.
i think the imic is the weak link here. a good quality audio interface will give much better results.
the concept of a usb cassette deck is great, but will never happen!
the software, although good, won't give you results as good as, for instance, tc spark or bias peak with lots of good vst plugins.
you'll need to normalise, limit, eq, and remove noise from the recordings.
hey, a can of worms!
to summarize, i think you need:

a very good cassette deck (especially as far as output is concerned).
something to boost the signal sent to the mac, maybe.
a high quality a/d converter (i.e. a GOOD audio interface).
some serious software like logic, cubase, performer, protools, spark, peak, etc to manipulate the audio.
toast with jam, waveburner, or similar to burn the results.

that will definitely help in a large way already.
keep in touch...

Hi,

Thanks again for your reply.

I'm working on getting a good quality tape deck (something that at least has an RCA output). So far, I've found a few "professional grade" Sony machines on eBay and hope to pick one of them up soon. That shouldn't be the problem.

As for the software, I'm going to buy Bias Peak LE for $99 to start with. That supports plug-ins, right? Do you think I need to spring for the full version?

The one thing I still don't understand is this concept of a good quality converter. Okay, so the iMic stinks :-). What do you recommend? I don't even know who makes these things!

I appreciate all of your help.

I would get a Digidesign Mbox which will kill about 3 birds with one stone!!

It will get you a decent audio interface with both analog and digital i/o

You get Protools 5.2LE software which even with the built in software will give you a chance to improve the sound

You can export Real Audio files direct from Protools. It produces much better quality files as well.

As budget allows you can add 3rd party plugins so strengthening you restoration options. Would look at Waves software starting with the Native Powerp Pack but also as funds allow the Restoration bundle.

Hope that helps

Mike Thornton
One Stop Digital (OSD) ltd
www.osd-uk.com

For your needs you probably would be fine with something like an Audiophle 24/96 made by M-Audio.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/m-audio/audiophile.php

it has an MSRP of $229.95 you should be able to get it for less than $160-170.

as damann said it would be good to have software that can remove noise etc. from recordings. Spark XL comes with some great software that can analyze an area of "silence" containing tape hiss, hum etc and remove this unwanted "noise" from the entire recording. It is however about $550-$600.

If you don't want to spend this much Peak LE would be a good program to start with.

I started out with no clue, but now you guys have filled in the gaps with a lot of options.

I'll go research this stuff right away to determine what is best for my needs... will post back here when I've bled enough money on all this stuff.

Following on from what Damann has said (oops I wrote this before reading the other replies), I think its a good idea for me to propose one particular in/out (I/O) solution. There are other solutions but if you know nothing, its a good place to start. Damann and others will then add to, warn against, or propose other solutions. (Mine's an OS9 solution NOT classic and NOT X)

The Mbox ( www.digidesign.com ) should be quite satisfactory for your needs (usb connection) as Studiophile suggests. It has 2 good quality I/O connecters, a preamp and even 48V power for mics if ever you want to record hymns live - and you get the Protools LE editing/mixing app with it which is excellent for audio. I think it goes for around 500$ in the US. That way your computer becomes your digital tape deck.

You also get some plugins, a few of which are good quality, but you may have to invest in some more or better plugins as Studiophile has said. For example the reverb plugin free with PT LE can give you a church reverb sound to your hymns, but it is not considered the best. (There's one excellent plugin I'd like for correcting pitch, but which costs more than the Mbox.)

Also, are all your hymns originally on cassette tapes? (LPs would be better, even with scratches - they can be cleaned out). If you do get an Mbox (I have one) but have a tight budget, I should try comparing initial, unmodified recordings onto your mac using your present cassette deck and a borrowed better deck (make sure the heads are clean). Then you can decide if the improvement in quality is worth the extra investment.

Aha! You need a good pair of headphones in order to listen to the results - mine are Beyerdynamic DT 250 but you may get other suggestions. If you're going to spend long periods listening, remember headphones are tiring for the ears, so you'll need monitors (good amp + good speakers)

I tried recording from an unpowered mic onto my mac using an imic and the very low quality was mainly due to the low input signal. The imic may well be a good 24 bit A/D converter, but it only works at 16bits as it uses the 16bit sound manager in MacOS9 (this may be only a minor problem in your case - perhaps not a problem on OSX), and it does not amplify a low input signal (big problem). I bought the imic before I knew about MacMusic!!

If you want to get best quality all the way along the chain, each bit can be quite expensive (I'm looking at monitors normally costing 1600$). Still, to conclude, just an Mbox and nothing else would be an enormous improvement on your imic.

(I really think somebody should write an article for beginners - I could provide one point of view but it would be far from complete)

Hi, Presto,

Thank you for your elaborate reply!

I wish I read your post earlier this morning, when I ordered the following components from JandR:

1) Sony TCW-E475 Cassette Player/Recorder (a simple component cassette deck that has Dolby B, C, and HX noise reduction)
2) Audiophile 2496 sound card

After reading all of the helpful suggestions in this post and doing my research, I forged ahead with the Audiophile card, because the other alternatives have almost non-existent OS X support. I should have mentioned that I am a recent Mac "switcher," and as such, know how to do things pretty much in OS X only. OS 9 and Classic are almost alien to me; it took me a whole day just to figure out line-in playthough from the iMic. The reviews of the Audiophile were pretty strong all-around. Plus, it's a PCI card, which means I don't have to waste my system resources on the USB connection. Finally, not only did the MBox seem to be unsupported in OS X, but the included--Protools 5.2 LE--doesn't run on OS X. That would have made my audio solution almost entirely OS 9, which, for reasons stated above, didn't seem ideal to me.

So, with all of this in mind, do you think I made a mistake? I know the Mbox has a built-in preamp or something; should I get a separate one to go from the cassette deck to the Audiophile card to ensure enough power?

To answer your question. almost all of my tapes are vintage, being recorded in the 40s-60s and mass duplicated throughout the years. This has undoubtedly added to the distorion in the tapes. My goal is to attain the best possible digital recording of these tapes so I can encode them in RealAudio format and eventually use the master files to make CDs (once the copyright stuff is worked out with the holder in Egypt).

I'm just worried I made the wrong choice now. Please let me know if I should cancel my order and still go with an Mbox over the Audiophile 2496 card and whether I need a preamp.

Thanks again for the help.