Dear macmusicians.
As a long time reader, i would first like to thank all the macmusic staff for their great and profitable work.

As a professional producer and songwriter, i've been using Digidesign products since their very beginning (my first digi was a SoundTools). I'm familiar with the idea of upgrading computer based solutions as the technology permanently evolves but I expect to get something out of it.

Therefore I am VERY disapointed with Digidesign's attitude towards their customers. It seems to be nowadays a generality for manufacturers (including Apple) to sell promises instead of true improvements as well as treating their customers of "walking wallets"...

I was planning to invest in a new Protools HD, for our main room, but the closer I look at it, the more i get the feeling that it is a very uncleaver choice. I really wonder if it's worth the money.

The truth is that nothing is EVER compatible between Digidesign products. The only solution for my studio to be up to date is:

1- Change ALL my digidesign hardware. This means upgrading for a very expensive price, all my processing cards (mix cube and 2 mix farms that i have bought only 10 month ago).

2- Throw out my 4 TDM SampleCell cards (knowing that there is nothing to replace them exept Soft-SampleCell which will never give me the 64 stereo voices needed for emulating symphonics with Miroslav collection for exemple). What an improvment...

3- I will also have to change my brand new USD as well as my three 888 interfaces. (I know I can use them if I buy 3 new Digi interfaces just to connect my old ones). Wow !!! Great deal !!!

4- Most plug-ins (ie TC) are still NOT compatible with HD systems... Anyway, I know I'll have to PAY expensive updates JUST to stay compatible. Who cares, i'm rich!?

5- Major sequencers including my favorite (Logic Audio) don't currently support ProTools HD.
I guess i will have to do with the ridiculous MIDI features of PT 5.

6- I was expecting Digidesign (the big leader) to announce an OS X version of their softwares but they simply let their competitors do it... Knowing (as Steeve Jobs announced it) that the new Mac product line will only support OS X by January, How much $$$ will I have to spend again to upgrade my henceforth costly Digi set up (Plugs and why not hardware again?)

7- BTW Thanks for strongly advising me to buy a very expensive Geronimo 2000 video card that will never be supported by OS X according to Appian themselves.

8- I've heard of big problems with the new Digidesign sync interface.

9- Best of all, I have been told that Digidesign may change their approach and favorise their development on PC's. I guess I will just have to upgrade again...

10- Does anyone at Digidesign care about their customers desesperatly waiting for a simple and efficient way to "direct connect" the growing collection of the amazing VST instruments.

All theses points lead me to reconsider my next investments. Considering it is nowaday easy to find mix farms at an affordable price and that ProTools mix systems are rock solid, I would suggest any "Digidesign shareholder" to wait and see...

Meanwhile I will certainly buy a new G4 just to experiment alternative solutions. The main problems with theses new compititors is that they are good looking, they offer great possibilities, they support many popular standarts and are a hell of a lot cheaper.


Cheers,

I totally agree with you about Digidesign business practices but... as many people are finding out... big business is in it for big businesses. Makes lots of sense right lol. A lot of companies (music related or not) cater to the customers with the biggest pockets first then everything else trickles down to the consumer (unless its a company like Remco, Pyramid, Squire, or Jensen who target the smaller pockets).

I just read an article in Electronic Musician mag regarding the whole new ProTools HD lineup with a review. They did mention that it was much easier to start out with a fresh system than trying to upgrade due to incompatible devices, plugins and the cost. But, the one thing they did really like about the system was that it was one of the best sounding tracking systems they had heard at the 192khz sampling level. They did tests with a mixplus system and compared the new HD system and were shocked by the difference. They claim it was superb in clarity and gave instruments more of a three demensional sound had more depth and even a bit more presence.

So, in my opinion... if I were lucky enough to have the older ProTools TDM setup ( i am just lucky to have the Digi001)... I would most likely just stay with it and keep it as up to date as possible. I can't really see the cost justification of the PT HD unless you owned a studio and it was determined to be the best choice for clients who were bringing in good cash to pay for services. I think this was Digidesign's idea for marketing. They were catering the bigger studios first and then maybe they would a few sales that are not exactly in the pro industry per say to give them a smaller amount of sales. I work in advertising and this sounds like their plan but... its also just an opinion for what it's worth

Hi Phil,

I sympatise completely! I bought a Mix+ system, 888's, Geronimo Card, USD, AV Option etc. two years ago. I've used the new HD System; sounds great...... so what!
I think I'm going to let my PT System just fizzile out into non-compatible existence. I'm not paying Digi another huge amount of cash for a system that doesn't work properly (took me three months and two Digidesign personnel to get my existing system properly operational).
I'm looking at a Logic Audio 5 system on OSX with a new lightning fast DP Mac and a MOTU 2408 MkIII front-ended with Apogee AD & DA 16's.
The latency on a 'native' OSX system is less than current ProTools TDM latencies. Logic supports all VST Instruments & Plugs etc. as well as Reason. What more can one ask for? Personally I think Protool's days as the 'industry standard' are numbered . Plus Logic's ESX24 Sampler, Vocoder, EVP88 Piano, Clavinet and now their Hammond simulator are amazing! It's the old cliche of 'use your ears'. I've heard albums that have been recorded on Cubase VST with a 2408 that sound fantastic.
Good luck with your dilemma, I know what I would do...

i totally agree with you phil. Except for people who need 96 or 192 kHz sampling, PT HD is just an expensive useless upgrade.

The lack of OSX announcement is also terrific IMHO, specially from Digidesign!
I'm afraid that the PC switch rumor, may explain this...

Ah men to all of the above. I switched to DP3 last year and am very happy. Dan10

I work as an engineer at Spark in Emeryville where the tests you mentioned were performed and i must say that HD DOES sound better - get if you can.

I have it from very good sources that OSX DIGI drivers are on the way

PS - LOGIC IS HD compatable

tao

the HD update besides updating the quality is also a very smart way to kill ALL piracy at least for know on all pro tools plug-ins. smart but i hate them for it. so i think it's a more usefull update for the 3rd party developers rather than anyone else. i just got me a HD2 system and the 192 I/O but have no money left for the dog damn EXPENSIVE plug-ins. so pirates get hacking! :-D ARRRRRRR

I work at a well known studio in Los Angeles and most of the producers and engineers that own a PT Mix rig are not in a hurry to get a HD rig. Those that do not own one of course get HD, but that would only make sense. The 888s are still standard and if you are only doing music, I see no real reason to switch to HD. If its really a big deal, pick one 192 up and use the legacy port to link up the 888s. If I was in your situation, I would wait and see what happens when Digidesign announces osx compatibility. I'm sure it will be either a great difference (yeah right) or no difference. As of right now though, it sounds like you have a great rig and you should stick with it.

By the way, the first client that came in the studio with an HD rig (about 5 months ago) watched his sync take a shit on him within the first 15 minutes of hooking it up. I should know, I was the runner that had to get him another one.

i'm aware of problems with their new (expensive) sync interface. I think they just corrected it since a few weeks...
All will certainly work as good as a PT mix, in 2003....

Digi attitude is worst every year!