Version imprimable du sujet

Écrit par : Mr.T mar. 1 oct. 2002, 16:37

From the DUC (extract from the "AES daily"edition, page 30):

"Digidesign Rolls Out New Pro Tools Software
At Booth 1447 Digidesign is featuring a number of new products, including new Pro Tools software, 6.0 for Mac OS X, and TDM 5.3.3 for Windows XP.
Pro Tools 6.0 boasts an all-new look and new features on Mac OS X. Shipping the end of the year, the new software offers improved performance and support for dual processor Macintosh G4 computers. Pro Tools 6.0 has improved organization and MIDI support, increased mixing options, and much more control. In this new version, Pro Tools has received a MIDI makeover, fully supporting the Mac OS X CoreMIDI engine and including MIDI Time Stamping (MTS) for sample-accurate MIDI timing with software samplers and synths (TDM, RTAS, HTDM and DirectConnect), and sub-millisecond accurate MIDI timing with MIDI I/O and other supported MTS-capable interfaces. Pro Tools 6.0 also has intelligent tools for groove creation and modification, including the new Beat Detective 2.0 that supports extraction and generation of DigiGroove templates based on audio performances for timing and velocity of passage. DigiGroove templates are compatable with new Groove Injection templates.
Pro Tools TDM 5.3.3 for Windows XP includes many of the features previously released in Pro Tools 5.3.1 software for Macintosh computers. Features include integrated control of PRE, mulit-DSP 48 bit mixer, Increased SYNC I/O options, and more. Pro Tools 5.3.3 software for Pro Tools|HD offers Windows XP users improved workflow efficiency through trus simultaneous sharing of media assets."

TDM and HD owners might enjoy this, while PTLE owners might, once again, be left behind...

Écrit par : starfruitman mar. 1 oct. 2002, 22:53

Sounds great. Does ProTools link to softsynths like Reason using ReWire?

Écrit par : Mr.T mar. 1 oct. 2002, 23:02

No. It only does via Refuse (using the awful DirectConnect), which is more of an hack developped by one brave man, the great Leigh Marble.
PS: since you don't seem to know PT, you might need to considere that the infos mentionned above only concern really expensive systems (TDM and HD only), not "affordable systems as the 001, the 002 or the MBox.

Écrit par : lepetitmartien mer. 2 oct. 2002, 00:40

I was just thinking… great commercial argument to sell protools HD systems: you can even use Reason!

Boohahahaaaaaaaaa

(sorry couldn't resist

Écrit par : Mr.T sam. 5 oct. 2002, 12:33

OK, this time IT IS official... and PTLE owners are finally not left behind !
It's all here:
http://nav.440network.com/out.php?mmsc=forums&url=http://www.digidesign.com/news/hotnews/PTv6/

Écrit par : lepetitmartien sam. 5 oct. 2002, 13:04

Champagne!

"""Pop!"""

Écrit par : bixpender dim. 6 oct. 2002, 08:33

does anyone have teh release date? and release dates for the VERY FEW plug-ins availible so far for the HD systems... i think that new cocoa look is uber gay. but hey that's just me.

Écrit par : Odrec lun. 7 oct. 2002, 01:00

PTLE available only for Digi001 users, no MBox support yet.

Damn, I wish I could afford it!

Odrec

Écrit par : Levon River lun. 7 oct. 2002, 10:35

Why? Seriously. What is the attraction?

I've worked with ProTools (when I've had to), and I just don't geddit. I consider ProTools some of the most elaborately dongle-protected software in the world--which is just one of the reasons I cannot abide much of anything about the company and its products. Having experience with what other software packages, like DP, can do, I still wonder what DippiDesign has been trying so desperately to protect over the years. The audio and MIDI go in and get recorded, you can edit it, you can add effects, and you can play it back. Duh. The difference with DippiDesign is you have to do it through their over-priced dongles.

I try and I try, but I just don't geddit. I would never buy OCR software if I could only use it with that same company's scanner, mainly because I have a fundamental moral objection to extortion.

I could go on, but I'll exercise some restraint and just ask: what is it that sells people on ponying up the extreme cash required to start--and maintain--the ProFools habit?

Écrit par : aladinsane lun. 7 oct. 2002, 15:03

Quote:
what is it that sells people on ponying up the extreme cash required to start--and maintain--the ProFools habit? (Levon River @ Oct 7 2002, 09:35)

well i wasn't THAT expensive, considering the Mbox and PTLE bundled for 500$. I'm not saying it's the best but if all you want is to record and edit audio (without having to deal with compatibility issues), then it seems like a fair price.
as for the bigger systems, I really don't know.

Écrit par : Odrec lun. 7 oct. 2002, 17:03

I would like an MBox because of the Focusrite preamps, and because it offers a hardware/software affordable solution (circa $500)...

But I would like any audio sequencer to be within my budget; Cubase, Logic, DP...

If you actually gave me a choice I would go with DP3 or Logic Audio 5 and a MOTU808. All this apps basically do the same exact thing, and it is basically a question of detail and taste.

Odrec

Écrit par : Levon River lun. 7 oct. 2002, 18:20

Yeah, that's *another* reason I personally can barely abide the company. I know that they know that learning any serious DAW+MIDI program is a serious investment in time, work, study, experience, and ripped-out hair.

Start with that "fair price" package, LE and 001, and the day you need your 25th track, or more audio inputs, or more flexibility or performance in any of the directions their high-end systems go, you either pony up the dinero to maintain the habit, or you start over your learning curve on a different system.

They didn't even add integrated stereo tracks--get that: stereo tracks--to LE until the latest version.

We haven't touched on ProTools Free, and of course it's the *only* software they make that will work without thir "DigiDesign approved ProFools Dongle system." Pushers make the first one free. Eight tracks of audio. Let's see: Snare, Kick, HiHat, Crashes, Toms, shaker, bass. Hmmm. Well, I guess this song can have a mono piano. Or... Now where did I put that spare $10,000? My other pants?

I personally think ProTools Free is the stupidest move they every made, because with it they proved conclusively that they *can* make their software work with the native audio of the Mac and/or other hardware interfaces. So the only reason their software versions with more tracks and options doesn't is... Doh!


Now where did I put that spare $10,000? My other pants?

Anyway, I'd still like to know what the attraction really is. I'd still like to see something that can be done on a ProTools system that can't be done in, e.g., Digital Performer. I'm not stating categorically that there isn't. I'm just saying I've never seen it..

Écrit par : bixpender lun. 7 oct. 2002, 19:45

have you fools nothing better to do than being smart asses all day long?

some people like windows other like mac's

some guys like big tits others don't

some people like pro tools others don't!

who gives a s### what you think.

JEEEZ

Écrit par : Mr.T lun. 7 oct. 2002, 22:17

Right on Bixpender! Enough of this already!!!
And furthermore, not only do "some people" think they're smart asses but they also preach while being uninformed:

I own that "stupid" 001 you're refering to... You might want to know that we have 32 tracks available since last summer... Get informed, stop preaching BS and get back to work !... Enough already!
Have a nice day.

PS: BTW I like firm tits.. big or not, doesn't matter.
Greetings Brooklyn!

Écrit par : Levon River mar. 8 oct. 2002, 03:40

You are *so* right Mr. T! I pity the po' fool who tries to slide one past you! The low-end ProFools package with only 24 tracks that aladinsane was referring to (and I was responding about) was the *Mbox* package, and I, like an idiot, typed "001" where I should have typed "Mbox." Thank whatever gods there are for having clever and articulate people like you around moderating.

So, yes: by paying almost TWICE as much as the 24-track-limited Mbox/LE package, you get the power-user 001/LE package for only $995, and DippiDesign rewards you for that extra $495 with EIGHT MORE AUDIO TRACKS! Whoooowee! I wouldn't want to sell them short on all they give you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for pointing out the error of my ways. I'm sure DippiDesign thanks you, too!

(Hmmm. But wait a minute, now; ProFools Free gives you eight audio tracks for...well, for FREE. But if you get them with an 001, they cost you $495.00. Hmm. Maybe the eight audio tracks that come with the 001 are *magic* audio tracks! Or maybe I better check the batteries on this calculator here...)



<Tsk, tsk, tsk> Now, now, Mr. T. You must have really had your panties in a wad, or a speck of spittle on your Moderator Glasses, because I didn't use the word "stupid" anywhere in referring to the 001. Are your own hostilities toward your 001 seeping out here? And I already admitted that I made a mistake. Okay, I'll say it again: I'm sorry that I said your power-user 001 system with 32 tracks was limited to 24, like the ProFools Mbox system is. I was wrong. Just dead wrong. Can we kiss and make up now?



Well, that's mighty fine for you. Congratulations. Yes, I named the wrong package inadvertently, and you are exactly correct: DippiDesign *did* decide to arbitrarily limit you power-user 001 owners to 32 tracks, not 24 like they arbitrarily decided to limit the Mbox buyers to. Of course, other DAW software manufacturers don't feel like they ought to dictate to you how many tracks you can have, allowing you to decide that for yourself based on what your system configuration can handle. But I'm sure the gurus at DippiDesign know what's best for you, and apparently you agreed with them. And I'm proud for you.



Generally, you're limited to 2 at a time on those, no matter what kind of system you have. YMMV.

Écrit par : Levon River mar. 8 oct. 2002, 04:33

No, speaking only for this fool, being a smart ass only requires about ten minutes of my day. Then I have the rest of the day to think about how to invest my ten smart-ass minutes for the next day.


You call those "people"? (I'm really trying to make the most of my ten minutes today.)


Don't pick up the soap around the ones who don't.


You call those "people"? <Rim-shot, crash>



MULTIPLE CHOICE:

A. People who've been smart enough to stay away from ProTools.
B. People who are really upset at what I say because they weren't.
C. People who feel it important enough to respond to. (Hi!)
D. Mr. T

Écrit par : Mr.T mar. 8 oct. 2002, 11:57

I really admire you... taping all those useful informations seem to have taken almost one hour (?!...) of your precious time... and it was night time... If you also took some of that time to learn tolerance and civility, and could work (just a little) on that natural aggressivity of yours, maybe we could "kiss and make up"... but I doubt you really want that...
Remember, you only reap what you sow...
Have a nice day. Really...

Écrit par : Levon River mar. 8 oct. 2002, 16:45

Really? You have a funny way of showing it, like: "smartass," "quit preaching BS," "get back to work." Why don't you take some of that natural aggressiveness and address some of the *substantive* and *on-topic* issues I raised about Pro-Tools, Mr. Moderator, instead of slinging cheap-shot ad hominem at one of your users. Or is ad hominem all you got to come back with?


I wasn't "taping" anything in order to idly deal with bixpender's off-topic ad hominem attack, and your first round of childish and churlish "Me Too!" ad hominem backing him up, Mr. Twit. Obviously, you don't multitask: I do. In fact I was in the middle of helping two friends get a demo mixed and burned that had to be delivered first thing in the morning, only dealing with your crap in my idle time. So your inexcusable abuse of your Moderator privileges in publishing that kind of private information was completely wasted, wasn't it? Are you proud? When are you going to get back on-topic and address the on-topic issues I raised regarding ProTools? Never?


I guess being able to read a time stamp is what qualified you for Moderator. It sure as hell wasn't for any ethics as a moderator or for keeping threads on topic. Why don't you address some of the FACTS about the on-topic ProTools issues I raised? Can't?


I guess you mean like your cheap-shot "Me Too!" gang-bang ad hominem attacks on me and your abuse of your privileges in publishing private information about my board usage in a public forum. Is that the kind of example I should be following, Preacher? When are you going to stop taking cheap personal shots and address some of the on-topic FACTS I published?


I was posting on-topic facts and opinions about the TOPIC of this thread. You're the one who decided to turn it into a personal p*ss*ng contest by "Me Tooing" bixpender in his off-topic ad hominem. Some Moderator. So go psychoanalyze somebody who cares, and answer the issues about ProTools with substance and facts instead of another tantrum. It's unbecoming.


I wouldn't kiss you if *your* tits were 42 Double-D. Answer the issues about ProTools.



Hey, he's a Moderator *and* a Psychoanalyst *and* a Philosopher *and* a Whiner. Well, here's a little down-home philosophy for you, too, and maybe somebody can help you understand what it means: "If you f*** with the bull, you get the horns." But you're welcome to keep coming back for more.

In the meantime, since there obviously is no responsible moderator on this thread, let me see if I can "steer" (that was a pun) you back on topic: Why don't you tell me something that ProFools can do that, e.g., DP can't do--and do without investing a single dime in DippiDesign's proprietary hardware. See? That was the on-topic question I had that *still* nobody has answered. Is it possibly because there *is* no substantive answer? Could *that* be what's behind all this childish ad hominem being slung at me?


Hey, we got a *great* demo, and I'm having a *marvelous* day, thanks. Just not very much sleep. But I think that the actually working musicians reading this have all been there...

Écrit par : Levon River mar. 8 oct. 2002, 17:24

Well, I sure appreciate somebody remaining on-topic in this thread, and can certainly understand the appeal of the preamps. I guess that has to be weighed against budget and other options for audio interface+preamps. It's not that that the MBox system isn't an attractively-priced package, probably suitable for any number of projects. My objection is to the arbitrarily-imposed limitations that they hard-code into the software so that if and when you do want to expand and continue with them, you can get bit in the wallet--hard.

For me, neither their hardware or their software, even at the high end, has anything approaching performance capabilities that justify the high price when compared to what else is available--now, as opposed to when ProTools (and SampleCell) first created their monopoly.


All my research and hands-on experience so far points me in a similar direction, with final bang-for-buck capability being a primary consideration. (I take it you meant 828?)



I agree wholeheartedly. That was part of my point in asking what ProTools software can do that others (like DP, etc.) can't. Given ProTools snobby proprietary approach, and the fact that I view their hard-wired limitations to their own hardware (which also now has some *serious* competitors) as little more than an elaborate, slick, and thinly-disguised dongle system--when other DAW software developers at least attempt to allow you the freedom to put together your own system with hardware of your own choosing--I personally don't get the attraction to ProFools.

There was a time, before computers reached the speed and power capabilities they have now, when paying for ProTools' monopoly at least made some sort of sense, because their hardware was taking up the slack and overcoming limitations inherent in the host computers.

But that time has come and gone as far as I'm concerned. There are some very affordable and capable audio/MIDI interfaces around now, powerful (and flexible) DAW packages with included DSP, and lotso' cheap RAM. It's a winning combination, as I see it, that doesn't have to keep a kid from going to college.

Écrit par : Mr.T mar. 8 oct. 2002, 17:48

Boy, you're really out of your mind... I've seen many trolls on different forums, but you're definitely the greatest one!... OK, here we go and then I'll let you loose it again and write your 123 lines long posts...

If you were not just bouncing here like a mad man, shouting at people and talking crazy, you would have noticed that the time a post has been written can be found (by any normal member...) at the top of the post... No need to be a modrator for that... Stop being paranoid...
Speaking of which, I do agree with you on one thing ... I'm not made to be a moderator and you might be happy to learn that I've asked to the people who created this board to erase me from the list. I find it harder and harder to keep my cool with people like you around and I definitely agree that a moderator should always...well, moderate. Meanwhile, don't be too proud of yourself, you're not the only troll that made me loose my cool these past days...


You're not one of my user... I didn't create that website and don't see myself as some kind of boss here... I'm just trying to help the good fellows who created it keeping it a pleasant and informative place.
I can imagine your quote : "pleasant"?! Yes, believe it or not, most of the time, I'm only here to help people out (specialy on the french section of this forum-> Yes I'm french! How funny is that? I'm sure you'll enjoy finding some good words about that...) but sometimes some trolls like you really piss me off.
I've been reading (some) of your posts these last weeks without interfering, although most of them were complete non-sense and only made to piss the others off.
Well I started this post just to make sure that stupid PT users like myself would have the info that PT6 was about to be released... and suddenly: here you come with your big mouth and all that useless provocation. I've waited long enough and really had to tell you what I thought of your behaviour.
I knew that would only urge you to write more of that non sense crap you've been feeding us with since you've arrived on this board.
I hate people like you who only show up to spit on people, trying to be smarter (specialy when they're not) but who never participate in anything constructive. How many people have you helped here...none...I've seen you've replied to ONE post lately...congratulations!

"On topic facts"???!!!... Where?... You mean when you say that there's nothing feasible in PT that can't be done in DP!! What a breaking news!! When you say that the extra 8 tracks in LE must be "magic"??...How informative!! And you want me to discuss this issue with you?!... What's the point? I own both PT and DP and do know what I like in one soft or in the other... but ...discuss this...with YOU?!... Never, that would just be a waste of time, you've already made up your twisted mind!

So once again, the moderator that I still am for a few hours honestly apologize for his behaviour, but the former (and soon to be again) member wouldn't change a line. Get lost!

Écrit par : Levon River mar. 8 oct. 2002, 19:25

Glad to see you're working on that ad hominem thing.


Nice try. You posted the AMOUNT OF TIME I was on the board. That is not part of the time stamp. No paranoia was involved: just a moderator abusing his privelges, and being called on it.


I'm not proud at all or pleased at all. I'm sure you've made many valuable contributions to these forums and helped many people. In fact, I urge you--URGE you--to take a walk and soberly reconsider it, weighing your knowledge and experience and ability to help against the momentary upsets with some people, like me, who manage to get under your skin. Which isn't something I set out to do to begin with.

I'm not a troll at all. I've been expressing my views--backed up with facts--about music related products and OS problems. If this isn't a forum for free expression, then what's the point? If it's supposed to be only a continuous feel-good free advertisement, then how will any of us, as consumers, ever be able to bring pressure on the marketers operating in a free market to improve their products and services and stay competitive?

I have nothing personal against you at all. I call 'em as I see 'em, and that rubs some people the wrong way. But I'm not trying to stop you from expressing *your* opposing views, or even DigiDesign from trotting out a PR rep to extoll its virtues. You, however, seem bent on trying to gag me, and to be as abusive as possible in the process. I didn't pick this fight, and don't want a fight.

I also think it would be a great loss to the MacMusic community for you to step down as moderator. I hope we're straight on that.

So I'm not going to bother attempting to dissect or respond to any more of your personal insults. I'm genuinely sorry if something I said about a music product developer and their policies and products got to you so personally. It certainly wasn't directed at you. I genuinely hope you'll take a little time to reconsider your decision about moderating, and will continue to use your knowledge and experience to help others.

Écrit par : lepetitmartien mar. 8 oct. 2002, 22:19

Excuse me Levon, but I will back up the words of Mr T.

THIS topic is about PT6 and its anouncement, not a thread on your personnel opinion (do you really care about the opinions on it from other members or moderators I wonder, surely you haven't browse the place to look for it, or you'll know about it) on the relevancy of such a product, digi hardware and so on. A glance in the french forums would have been instructive also.

btw, I reserve myself the privilege I HAVE to edit your posts if you don't do it yourself. I will tolerate NO INSULTS either against macmusic fellows, or any other member.

IS THAT CLEAR?

Now back on topic if you can manage it, please.

Écrit par : Mr.T mar. 8 oct. 2002, 22:53

Paranoia it is... I don't have access to more infos than you do... I've just watched the hour of your first post and then the hour of your second post and was just amazed to see the hour and the time it took you to write those two posts.
In other words I made an...addition...ever heard of that?...
"Abusing his privileges": man ,if I wanted, I could edit every single word of your boring posts...I could make you say ANYTHING I want...that's part of my (soon to go) privileges... I could also just erase every posts you've posted so far... Did I do that?... No. So please stop that "CIA wants me dead" thing... at least do that... if you're clever enough.
Oh, and:

What's up with that?...at least we were agreeing on one thing...

Finally, just for the record, I don't work for Digi and can assure you that I'm, as many others, a pissed off consumer... DIGIDESIGN are assholes! They have the poorest politic one can think of... but I do like PT, have been working for years with it and WHAT I DON'T like is when someone like you comes along and say "I don't get why people keep working with PT!! Fools! "(this might not be your exact words but, get real, that's basically what you're saying).
Feel free to insult Digi as much as you wish; no matter what you say, this IS a free board over which manufacturers don't have any power (unlike the DUC).
Now, insult me and my intelligence and I'll be in your face!!! Any time!

Écrit par : Levon River mer. 9 oct. 2002, 02:01

Well, since he hasn't said anything on-topic to me yet, I can only understand that to mean you're here to endorse his off-topic personal attacks, insults, and ad hominem. Is that correct, M. LePetitMartien? As weak and kittenish and ineffective as his attacks were, they need some back-up. Glad the poor boy found someone who would actually help him attempt to insult someone. No surprise that it's you. So quote exactly what you claim you're backing up. 'kay? Then we'll see if you can back it up or not. I don't think you can back up a word of it, but I'd love to see how you do. Are you up to it? Want to play?



Then why are you wasting time backing up the off-topic personal insults of Mr. T?

PT6, and issues about it that Mr. T *HIMSELF* raised (which I prove below) is EXACTLY what my posts were about--until, that is, he jumped in with his personal attacks, which apparently you are reckless enough to endorse. My posting record in this thread proves it. If you, or he, think I'll sit still to be a punching bag for his, or your, snide, rude, unmotivated personal attacks on me, you picked the wrong boy. That's all. It's that simple. He found that out the hard way. Now he needs your help to recover. So far it's a walk in the park. Can't you bring a few more, just to make it interesting?


Well, apparently you never found out what "forum" means before you lined up to start "moderating" one. Just to prove how willing I always am to help, here is the definition of FORUM, M. LePetitMartien:

"A public meeting place for open discussion; A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas; A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation."

So are you rewriting the English dictionary, as well as endorsing unjustifiable personal attacks? This may seem like a radical idea, but you might think about at least learning to speak the language first before you go changing all of the definitions. If my opinions and ideas and discussion about the topic of this thread, and the relevant issues raised in it, are not allowed in this "forum," why call it a forum at all? That would make it a lie, wouldn't it?

And, by the way, if you're going to censor *my* commentary on PT6 and the related systems and hardware, allow me to humbly suggest that you delete your own opinionated "Pop the champagne" gee-whiz ProTools endorsement in this thread while you're at it so you won't embarrass yourself so publicly as a *total* hypocrite.

As for the hardware connection to the release of PT6, it was DigiDesign, not me, who made PT6 entirely dependent on their own hardware, and who made it available ONLY for *certain* PT systems, so take it up with them--not with me. And it was Mr. T himself who brought up that EXACT ISSUE. So take it up with him if you don't like it being in this thread, not with me. It's that exact issue that I was discussing, raised by Mr. T himself, which I prove below. So are you going to limit everyone to talking only about the software with no address at all to the hardware it works exclusively with? That should be a fascinating discussion. And if you're going to do that, you're going to have to go back and edit out Mr. T's reference to the ONLY DigiDesign HARDWARE-BASED systems that PT6 works with, or else you're really going to be exposing yourself as a hypocrite. That kind of puts you between a rock and a Mr. T, just from where I sit. (Maybe you could solve it by just censoring the entire topic.)


It will be clear once you go back through this thread and edit out every single INSULT from bixpender and Mr. T against me. Until you do that, the only thing clear to me is your hypocrisy.

Will you just censor *all* this to cover up that kind of hypocrisy? If so, it will all appear in a *much* more widely-read forum that's *actually* a forum, by definition. Want to play?


Well, I couldn't manage to get Mr. T back on topic; he's still slinging insults at me--you know, those things you will tolerate NONE of toward ANY member. Like me.

So let's see if I *can* actually manage getting *you* back on topic. Here are my on-topic questions for you:

1. Mr. T himself raised the following issue in this thread: "you might need to considere that the infos mentionned above [about PT6] only concern really expensive systems (TDM and HD only), not 'affordable systems as the 001, the 002 or the MBox." So is it true or is it not true, M. LePetitMartien, that PT6, for OS X, is not available for the low-end MBox and 001 systems that odrec and aladinsane expressed their feelings about IN THIS THREAD, and which I was responding to? Yes or no?

2. Pursuant to Mr. T himself raising the issue of these systems IN THIS THREAD, is it true, or is it not true, M. LePetitMartien, that the software version of PT that *is* available for the MBox system is arbitrarily limited by DigiDesign to 24 tracks, and the software version that *is* available for the 001 system is arbitrarily limited by DigiDesign to 32 tracks (8 more than the Mbox system), but that you get 8 FREE audio tracks with ProTools Free? Is that correct, M. LePetitMartien?

Maybe if you can answer just two simple on-topic questions based on issues that Mr. T *himself* raised IN THIS THREAD, you will do better than he, and start looking like an actual moderator of an actual FORUM, rather than like a petulant bully. I feel certain that you must not be just a petulant bully, and have very high hopes indeed that I can manage to swing you back on-topic.

Please don't disappoint.

Écrit par : Levon River mer. 9 oct. 2002, 03:55

So, by that "logic", if I don't post at all for a week, it took me a week to write my next post, right? Your deduction was dead wrong, that's all. The time between the two posts had nothing to do with how long it took me to write either, it had strictly to do with what ELSE I was doing at the time. But thanks for playing.



I told you: I have no personal beef with you at all. All I've been doing in our exchages is deflecting the flames you seem determined to throw at me. I think your knowledge and experience and contributions are of value to a lot of people, including me. I'd rather be discussing music on the Mac with you and benefitting from your knowledge of that, and having others benefit from it, than being in a flame war. It's that simple. So I urged you to take a little time and reconsider. I still urge you to.



No, Mr. T, that is not at all what I am saying, or have been saying, or have ever said. That's why exact words are so important, and not misinterpretations of them. My calling DigiDesign's product "ProFools" is nothing more sinister than a slice of irony, a rhetorical device, a bit of satire directed solely at the company. My sentiments and empathies are entirely on the side of the consumers, the users.

Better get that irony meter checked.

From something you said in an earlier message, I also believe you entirely misunderstood my one and only use of the word "stupid" in this thread, when I said: "I personally think ProTools Free is the stupidest move they [DigiDesign] ever made." My entire point was that it exposed conclusively to the world that they--DigiDesign--are entirely capable of making their software usable with the Mac native audio, and with other audio hardware and software--the way DP, Cubase, etc. are--but that they knowingly and willfully lock it into their hardware, forcing people to buy their hardware at a premium.

I'll take it a step further: DigiDesign never threw such crumbs as ProTools Free and the recent MBox and 001 packages to the little guys as long as they had a complete monopoly on high-end Mac-based recording packages that required their high-end hardware. It was only with the advent of faster, more powerful computers--and competing software that would work native and with much less expensive audio/MIIDI hardware on those faster and more powerful computers--that DigiDesign decided they would stoop to try and horn in on the exact market segment of small home and project and demo studios that they had completely turned their noses up at for years. I can hear the caps being twisted off of Evian bottles in the marketing meetings where they decided they needed to get a piece of this new emerging market, and might be able to leverage that market into their bigger packages with the right come-on, and away from more affordable systems that were now competing with them hard.

I see it as a cold-blooded marketing ploy to cozy up to a market segment they wouldn't have wiped their shoes on before.

So I stand on the side of the user, the consumer, especially the ones on a budget who are trying to get good, professional audio projects done, and can't invest the small fortune that a higher-end DigiDesign system would require, when they can get very similar, if not identical, results these days with a much smaller investment. As long as I can help inform others that there are viable and workable options out there--and poke a few well-earnd holes in the Great Sacred Inflated Floating Godhead of DigiDesign in the process--I'm going to do it.

So nowhere did I say, or even imply, that anyone who has, themselves, been able to invest in a ProTools system is either a fool or stupid. Obviously, the products can deliver, or they never could have commanded the high prices they have gotten for them over the years. But there are other, less expensive, and very competent options available now. You don't actually have a problem with letting others know that, do you?



I didn't suggest that the manufacturers had power over it. I believe you've set up an entire squad of straw men now to flame.



That's fair enough. And you keep rewriting me just so you can get in my face over something I never said, and I'll be in yours. Any time. Deal?

Écrit par : Soif mer. 9 oct. 2002, 06:47

Mr Levon, whatever is you opinion about anybody here, stop shouting an posting tons of pages in this forum or your account will simply be deleted.

We like to read your opinion and it can be different or the same as others members: that's a forum.
but this forum must stay informative and a cool place.

If you like to fight with moderators and members, do it privatly (PM or email) and dont bother thousand readers who really don't care about your discussion. (half the digest was about your personnal fight). Understand that being too agressive with moderators or members will just lead you to be disconnected of MacMusic.


Whatever MrT, or LPM said to you (i have to time to read the whole posts), they do a fantastic job here for free, helping thousand of members and keeping theses forum sorted, informative and cool.

You seems spending more time here beiing aggressive toward them, instead of sharing your opinion or knowledge, or discussing on-topic.

Keep in mind that Moderators, even if sometimes they make mistakes are always RIGHT in a forum!!!

If you hate this place, the team here, think we are the NSA watching, or censor you, just fing another forum...you will find thousands on the internet.

Then now just STOP that kind of posts!
(continuing/replying this discussion in the public forum will NOT be tolerated!)


keep cool!

Écrit par : bixpender mer. 9 oct. 2002, 08:13

HAHAHAHAHA

MORE!! I WANT MORE!!!!

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA


cognac and cigars

Écrit par : Mr.T mer. 9 oct. 2002, 09:44

OK that's it people!
Levon, I'll let you have the last word in this "discussion" just to show you I'm not abusing my privileges...
Meanwhile, one of the privileges I can still use is to close a subject and that's exactly what I'd like to do.But you know the funniest thing?... I'm not even a moderator in this section of the forum! So I'll ask any of the moderator passing by to please close this damn thread. Thanks.
The reason why I'm doing it are:
1- This is going nowhere (if you want to discuss Digi's products or its general policy, I'll be glad to, but in another thread and in another form),
2- I started this topic, kinda started that stupid flame war, so it's also a way to moderate myself (how pathetic?!...),
3- But most of all, that Bixpender reply convince me that I've been a fool thinking it was time to let you know what I thought of your behaviour on this board. I've followed the wrong man (damn, I'm usually not a follower, don't know what happened), a man that only seem to be stupidier than I thought you were.
4- I don't want my fellow teamers to get involved in such a useless, kiddish war.

So: Levon, I hope you'll keep on posting to show everyone you can do something else than just bitching and whining around.
And Bixpender... well...sorry but you wont get what you came for here.

Show is over. Get moving.

Écrit par : lepetitmartien mer. 9 oct. 2002, 16:04

This thread is closed! Enough is enough (choir: yeaaaaah!)

We gave you, Levon a chance to go back ON topic, which is still PT6 and its coming release on OSX, not the relevancy of PT as a profrssionnal package or the marketing policy of Digidesign in particular. I'll stand by the words of Mr T that I know, him, personally, and his in the mix knowledge. I don't say that he's free of charges, simply he's a bit more conscious of some limits than you are.

We don't tolerate here such aggressive threads, we like cool on topic talking, and if your definition of on topic and ours are the same, you can still remember that it's us who are running the forums. Especially when it is people who are working with the product day bay day. There is no censorship in these forum, we want free input, talking and for the benefit of everyone. But we will never accept paranoids, insults, aggressivity and wrong infos.

This said.

Laser!